Hi all, debating on a t5 conversion so I am looking for some who has done it.
I would be going from a t10 to a t5z and I want to use the adaptor plate so I can run the original bellhousing and linkage.
Questions:
Do I need to shorten the drive shaft ? If so by how much ? or is there an aftermarket bolt in?
Does the trans tunnel or shifter opining need to be modified?
What conversion kit did you use?
Thanks!
I put a WC T5Z in 1801 back in 2006. I worked with Bruce at Modern Driveline. There were a couple of back & forths but he worked through them with me quite satisfactorily. To begin with, I have a COBRA scattershield and the first adapter plate did not line up (bolt pattern). Bruce got me a different one and it was spot on. I used his cross member and shifter assembly and did not need any modifications to the tunnel or bodywork. The driveshaft did need to be shortened, but rather than modify my original, I worked with a local shop and we just built and balanced a new one. It is not a very expensive project and I have the original setup intact, if I go back to the T-10. As a sidenote on the driveshaft - when I changed my gears from 3.89 to 3.50, 2 years ago, I put in a complete 3rd member and needed to alter the driveshaft again (there's another learning experience on pinion & universal sizing). Once again it was cheaper and easier to have a new driveshaft built and balanced than to modify.
Of all the changes I have made, the T5Z is no doubt the most useful. Last spring we drove down the Blue Ridge Parkway to the Tail of the Dragon. It was 1800 miles and seven states in 10 days, and after the run, just being able to cruise home on the interstate was worth the price of admission.
Bruce is a great guy to work with. I have known him for about 35 years and he installed the 5 speed in my 5 speed 92 Ranger. He use to also work with the Shelby people to do conversions on the cobras.
https://www.moderndriveline.com/
Roy
Quote from: jamesfee on May 08, 2021, 02:21:49 PM
I put a WC T5Z in 1801 back in 2006. I worked with Bruce at Modern Driveline. There were a couple of back & forths but he worked through them with me quite satisfactorily. To begin with, I have a COBRA scattershield and the first adapter plate did not line up (bolt pattern). Bruce got me a different one and it was spot on. I used his cross member and shifter assembly and did not need any modifications to the tunnel or bodywork. The driveshaft did need to be shortened, but rather than modify my original, I worked with a local shop and we just built and balanced a new one. It is not a very expensive project and I have the original setup intact, if I go back to the T-10. As a sidenote on the driveshaft - when I changed my gears from 3.89 to 3.50, 2 years ago, I put in a complete 3rd member and needed to alter the driveshaft again (there's another learning experience on pinion & universal sizing). Once again it was cheaper and easier to have a new driveshaft built and balanced than to modify.
Of all the changes I have made, the T5Z is no doubt the most useful. Last spring we drove down the Blue Ridge Parkway to the Tail of the Dragon. It was 1800 miles and seven states in 10 days, and after the run, just being able to cruise home on the interstate was worth the price of admission.
Thanks, but I am looking for someone that did the t5 conversion from oem parts using the bellhousing adaptor and an over the counter kit.
Back to the top regarding t5 conversionI would be going from a t10 to a t5z and I want to use the adaptor plate so I can run the original bellhousing and linkage.
Questions:
Do I need to shorten the drive shaft ? If so by how much ? or is there an aftermarket bolt in?
Does the trans tunnel or shifter opining need to be modified?
What conversion kit did you use?
Thanks!
Give Bruce a call as he can answer all of those questions.
Roy
I did the conversion in my 65, not tunnel mods, cut my hurst shifter and drilled two holes in it and mounted directly to t5s shifter, had to use the kits tranny mount. I dont believe I modified my driveline at all, but I suppose if you needed to the math is simple thickness of adapter plate and difference in length between the two trannys and shorten driveline by those numbers but I am not very technical. I dont remember the kit I bought, butnit was a 90 or 91 WC t5.
I might have not even had an adapter plate now that I think about it, the later bell housing bolted up to the engine. But my memory is bad. Sorry
Here is the kit, it was simple not sure if the exact kit, but it was just these pieces and I used a t5 bellhousing
https://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/65-6-t-5-conversion-w-t5-bell-t5-65-kit. Again dont remember shortening my driveshaft but I did the work myself so might have skipped that step.
I did a "do-over" to the original T5 swap that previous owner Roger Werner had JBA perform. It was obviously one of the first of its kind. There was no cross-over "H" pipe and I wasn't pleased with the routing of the exhaust. I used a Modern Driveline adapter plate and had a machine shop do the small modification to the bellhousing. No modification to the shifter opening was required. It's a great mod!
Those are some really sexy twists and turns on the exhausts.
Did you machine the bell to eliminate the spacer plate?
The sexy curves were compliments of Virginia Mustang's H-pipe and exhaust system. It's been a few years since I did the re-conversion but the minor machining to the original style bell housing doesn't eliminate the adapter plate. As I recall, the entire operation was covered in a "How to Do" article in Mustang Monthly many years ago.
Here's a California Pony Cars YouTube video on modification of the bell housing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VBWR-dC1aQ
All things must come to an end - So as the sands of time fall though the hourglass, so shall this thread fall apart.
Quote from: 427hunter on May 09, 2021, 12:53:28 PM
All things must come to an end - So as the sands of time fall though the hourglass, so shall this thread fall apart.
I see a couple of guys trying to help out. ::)
2170 66 Shelby was converted. T10 to T5
No cutting. Even without the slic shift shift arm relocate arm that modern driveline sells
Driveshaft needed shortening.
But. I always had a driveline vibration from day one. "Buyer of my car was notified of this)
It was determined by a chassis shop that the driveline angle needed adjusting. I ordered Ron Morris adj engine mounts but never fit them as the car sold (mounts sent with the car)
An excellent conversion. I have owned many cars with them. I had the "factory look T5 arm from modern driveline
They now sell a much more capable trans then the T5. Much higher load rating
I've done 2 conversions in a 67 using components from Modern Drive Line. I went with the beefier Tremec in both cases. I had vibration in both cars. One was a pressure plate I purchased from Modern. Both had tail shaft to rear end angle problems. The first was solved by shimming the rear end housing. The second one I am still playing with but has improved by shimming the rear. There were no modifications to the tunnel and in both cases had to fabricate a new drive shaft. Bruce, at Modern is very knowledgeable.
Dave
6S264: I swapped mine in about 2006. Agree with JamesFee, it was one of the best mods you can make. I used the T5 M-7003-Z with some better internals. Nowdays, I'd go with the new TKX trans if you're pushing much over 400 lbft torque at the flywheel. Aluminum flywheel is a plus but I recommend a scattershield, same as JamesFee again. Dual-friction clutch is a no-brainer.
I found I did have to "mill off" about 3/16"x3/16" off the right side of the B&M shifter housing to avoid cutting the tunnel but I suspect that was due to the McLeod scattershield. And yes, you have to shorten the drive shaft.
The great thing about going with the 5 speed is having a tranny that acts like a close-ratio T10 but having the extra gear on the freeway. Say AAAAaahhhhhh!
As stated multiple times above, Bruce likely has the most experience, can provide anything from a complete kit to include the new T5Z, to any single part. Yes the driveshaft will need to be shortened, but you would be better served retaining your original, and buying a new aluminum shaft. That mod is the best mod you can do to these cars. The stock T5Z comes with a 2.95 first gear and will be really short with a stock 3.89 rear. You can get the T5Z with a taller first gear, or drop to a 3.50-3.70 rear.
I've been thinking about doing this conversion to my '66 for sometime. I know this will not be an easy question to answer but what do you think the total cost for this conversion would be (parts and labor)?
Just some food for thought, as all the above conversions keep the original Z-Bar and clutch linkage.
If you go to a modern 5.0 bellhousing, It changes the throw-out arm mount to the reverse action, and the original clutch linkage will not work. But, if you are willing to be a little more open, then do a hydraulic clutch conversion, and your left leg with REALLY thank you!
To really make the clutch smooth, add the pedal modifications where the bushings are changed to roller bearings. Makes the clutch pedal feel like shifting a Toyota.
These parts (Hydraulic conversion, pedal bearings) are available as bolt-ins, just takes some research.
I did the hydraulic conversion on mine, and run a SPEC semi-race clutch, smooth as butter. T5Z behind.
On my old 69 Big Block, did the pedal mod, as most of our cars tend to elongate and destroy the pedal pivot holes on the steering column mount.
Both mods are relatively hidden, not a glaring mod, and accepted by almost everybody but the non-driving purists. Again, a little more work and cost, but like all other on the thread, makes driving so much better!
Quote from: 2112 on May 09, 2021, 01:45:46 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on May 09, 2021, 12:53:28 PM
All things must come to an end - So as the sands of time fall though the hourglass, so shall this thread fall apart.
I see a couple of guys trying to help out. ::)
Agreed, just LOTS of useful information, no hi-Jacks.
Quote from: FR500Racer on May 10, 2021, 06:17:43 PMNowdays, I'd go with the new TKX trans if you're pushing much over 400 lbft torque at the flywheel.
They just put one of these in the OVC GT350R. Even though the case is much smaller than the TKO600 they needed to trim the trans tunnel brace on the unibody to get the angle right. New driveshaft and rear trans mount too of course.
I have a friend who did the T5 conversion on his 1966 GT350 a year or two ago. He first installed the new trans, then took measurements and had a driveshaft made to those specs. All per guidance from Modern Driveline.
I did the conversion myself almost 2 years ago. I ordered all my parts through Modern Drive Line. I used the original bell housing and had a new driveshaft built per MDL. As Steve mentioned below, I installed the tranny, took the measurements requested, and they shipped me the new drive shaft in no time.
As others have said: one of the best improvements I've made to the car! And, as also mentioned, the T5 1st gear is short for a stock 3.89 rear ended. Not impossible to live with, and my bigger challenge would be the 5th gear ratio. The throw from 4th to 5th is long (RPM wise). I'd love to shorten up the distance between 4th and 5th, but I believe the newest tranny addresses both 1st and 5th.
I won't ever go back. The original tranny sits safely on the shelf.
Hope this helps!
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on May 11, 2021, 05:59:27 PM
I did the conversion myself almost 2 years ago. I ordered all my parts through Modern Drive Line. I used the original bell housing and had a new driveshaft built per MDL. As Steve mentioned below, I installed the tranny, took the measurements requested, and they shipped me the new drive shaft in no time.
As others have said: one of the best improvements I've made to the car! And, as also mentioned, the T5 1st gear is short for a stock 3.89 rear ended. Not impossible to live with, and my bigger challenge would be the 5th gear ratio. The throw from 4th to 5th is long (RPM wise). I'd love to shorten up the distance between 4th and 5th, but I believe the newest tranny addresses both 1st and 5th.
I won't ever go back. The original tranny sits safely on the shelf.
Hope this helps!
Mr. Horseshoe, one of the questions was total cost. Could you comment on that?
Thanks,
Steve
Got an estimate of (additional) $4800 for '67 conversion to 5 speed in Detroit area recently. Don't know what transmission and he was doing other work requiring 4 speed removal. Decided against it.
Quote from: SFM6S087 on May 12, 2021, 11:45:33 AM
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on May 11, 2021, 05:59:27 PM
I did the conversion myself almost 2 years ago. I ordered all my parts through Modern Drive Line. I used the original bell housing and had a new driveshaft built per MDL. As Steve mentioned below, I installed the tranny, took the measurements requested, and they shipped me the new drive shaft in no time.
As others have said: one of the best improvements I've made to the car! And, as also mentioned, the T5 1st gear is short for a stock 3.89 rear ended. Not impossible to live with, and my bigger challenge would be the 5th gear ratio. The throw from 4th to 5th is long (RPM wise). I'd love to shorten up the distance between 4th and 5th, but I believe the newest tranny addresses both 1st and 5th.
I won't ever go back. The original tranny sits safely on the shelf.
Hope this helps!
Mr. Horseshoe, one of the questions was total cost. Could you comment on that?
Thanks,
Steve
Oops! Good catch, Steve!
I believe it was $2,500-$2,800 all in for parts only. And, that was for ALL the parts, to include the cross member, new driveshaft, new clutch, etc.
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on May 11, 2021, 05:59:27 PM
and my bigger challenge would be the 5th gear ratio. The throw from 4th to 5th is long (RPM wise). I'd love to shorten up the distance between 4th and 5th,
This is how it is, and intended to be (with the standard .63 ratio over-drive), and don't be "speed-shifting" into, as the race is over once one chooses O.D.. But note that a .80 ratio O.D. gear set has been available (on & off) but is not truly a direct "drop-in" in many cases. ;)
Scott.
Quote from: pbf777 on May 13, 2021, 11:35:45 AM
Quote from: Shelby_r_b on May 11, 2021, 05:59:27 PM
and my bigger challenge would be the 5th gear ratio. The throw from 4th to 5th is long (RPM wise). I'd love to shorten up the distance between 4th and 5th,
This is how it is, and intended to be (with the standard .63 ratio over-drive), and don't be "speed-shifting" into, as the race is over once one chooses O.D.. But note that a .80 ratio O.D. gear set has been available (on & off) but is not truly a direct "drop-in" in many cases. ;)
Scott.
The Richmond, aka, Doug Nash 4+1, has the T10 gear spacing. 5th is 1 to 1. 1st is 3.26.
You make your overdrive by whatever you select for the rear.
That's the reason that I went with it besides the launch factor with a 3.50 rear is in the ET sweet zone, i.e., 1st x final = 11 or higher.