Attempting to ascertain whether a 4spd 68 GT500 non AC car would have had a battery heat shield. I have found no concrete info that they came with one. I have info that most high perf Ford cars had them for larger engine sizes starting in 67. Can anyone in SAAC land help me out? Thanks
Big blocks with AC sre the most common, probably not used on the other applications
I seen a 68 302 cougar with a/c all original car back 35 years ago and it had an original battery heat shield still in the car and last year i bought a 69 351 xr7 cougar with a/c from an estate sale original lady owned low mile car and still has all original battery cables and black battery heat shield in place. This cougar is unmolested but all the double wire clamps including the gas filler neck wire clamps were changed out to worm drive clamps of which i thought was odd. I looked thru all the paperwork and their was a letter sent to the out of state dealer she bought it from saying she wanted those new wire type clamps to be changed out before the car was shipped so she must have thought the new wire clamps werent safe even the gas filler neck clamps that arenot under any pressure were changed out.
Don't know about GT500, but my KR convertible with no AC has one.
Also my friends 70 428SCJ which he bought new has one also --non AC car. Was there anything on build sheet to state it came with heat shield? Thanks for your responses
Quote from: snakeoil on March 11, 2021, 04:39:06 PM
Also my friends 70 428SCJ which he bought new has one also --non AC car. Was there anything on build sheet to state it came with heat shield? Thanks for your responses
If you look in the assemblyline manual illustrations for the battery and heat shield it states for BB with A/C. It seems that for the 67/68 year which is what the inquiry started about that the heat shield was meant to be on the BB A/C cars according to the engineering drawings and direction. If some ended up on others in those years it was more likely a anomaly then regular production procedure. Something for a reasonable person to consider is the fact that IF they came on all regardless of if A/C or non A/C there would be a lot more out there to be found. That is not the case.
Often discussed subject over the decades
We should also consider that in replacing the original battery - at about 5 years at the latest its likely many were not replaced
Thought I recall a mention of Thermactor related note also in one or more Ford documents/manuals.
Different car or year that the section title - sorry
Here are a couple of period pictures both from road tests
68 Torino/Talladega
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-110321172545.jpeg)
70 Boss 302
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-110321172602.jpeg)
Thanks to Mr Gaines and Mr Speegle for your replies. I will not be putting one on. More $ for other parts!
Quote from: snakeoil on March 11, 2021, 04:39:06 PM
Also my friends 70 428SCJ which he bought new has one also --non AC car. Was there anything on build sheet to state it came with heat shield? Thanks for your responses
No box on the buildsheets that indicate or identify the installation of a battery shield that I've every seen
Many of us know the story about the red KR fsbk with 8k miles sold at auction in Indiana. It was an original owner car 4 spd no air car. I bought the battery heat shield and starter delay from that car that day. I know someone could say how do I know that heat shield goes with that KR? This family only had 1 BB Shelby or mustang. And this red KR had been Ziebart all over including this heat shield.I will need to clean the undercoating off of this if I ever used it.
Is this an anomaly? I do not know. I believe some no air cars came with heat shields.
I cannot remember if I threw away the heat shield on my fathers ,original owner 69 GT500 or if it had one.
Whiteykr was that heat shield black or grey? I was at that indy kr auction and was shocked to see what that kr sold for as the claimed mileage never made sence after looking at the car (if u know what to look for and expect from a low mile car). They cleaned out the guys garage and some car parts were mixed in with other items at auction and we both know who was digging around those boxes haha. Jeffs photo of The 70 boss 302 shows a grey c7za shield and that car has california fuel evap and looks like a dearborn car and must be early built because sometime in 70 the heat shield changed to a black doof type. We bought a NJ 69 428 cj Non a/c mach1 from original owner and it had a black shield so has anybody documented a 69 dearborn 428 cj car having a grey shield?
Jeff's picture of the 68.5 Torino shows a gray heat shield and that's mostly where I have seen them. My April built 68.5 CJ FB has a black shield. "Some" were left off when the battery was changed . Years back I bought three from a guy that worked at a tire store changing batteries. He never put them back on the cars.
Randy
Ed,
I just looked at the battery heat shield and it is grey. Part # C7ZB
I am 100% certain this heat shield came with this KR as I am with the starter delay.
Yes,price was crazy for that car. We can debate the mileage on the car for yrs. as I looked at the car underneath for at least an hour. I remember people saying when I was underneath ,what is he looking at? Always thought that was funny.
Hope this helps
Brad
Quote from: whiteykr on March 12, 2021, 02:27:59 AM
Many of us know the story about the red KR fsbk with 8k miles sold at auction in Indiana. It was an original owner car 4 spd no air car. I bought the battery heat shield and starter delay from that car that day. I know someone could say how do I know that heat shield goes with that KR? This family only had 1 BB Shelby or mustang. And this red KR had been Ziebart all over including this heat shield.I will need to clean the undercoating off of this if I ever used it.
Is this an anomaly? I do not know. I believe some no air cars came with heat shields.
I cannot remember if I threw away the heat shield on my fathers ,original owner 69 GT500 or if it had one.
I don't think you will get a argument from many on that. In the context of 67/68 Mustang only that the belief that every big block got them is where you wouldn't want to bet the farm . ;)
i think the grey vs black shield was also an assembly line thing and was also used on other cars besides mustangs cougars torinos fairlanes etc as i found 2 on 428 t-birds in a yard in AZ back years ago and they had the top rear corner cut off and not trimmed back with the c70b long part still on the shield like the fairlanes had as these shields were moulded being long and shortened or corner trimed off depending on the car it was going on.
Ed, did they have black and grey with the C7ZB?
I think if my son ever shows our KR I would like to see the heat shield on it. This is a non A/C AT .
The heat shield that I bought at the auction has not been cut or no corners missing.
Tim L Could you give your thoughts on this?
I think it is an interesting topic and I sure would like to know how many A/C , no A/C cars got these.
I think they were supposed to be on all 428 big blocks and a/c cars . The c7zb shield was 1 mould then cut out or trimmed off depending on the car it was going on as the long version c7ob fairlane # on end is gone when shortened then only the c7zb # is left instead of both #s moulded in. On 428 t-bird its the long version with the top corner trimmed off at an angle and also on bottom short side of the shield is another cutout depending on the year of battery change when early batteries had that bottom ear moulded in to use the metal hold down plate that locks the battery in place vs the top hold down using 2 j bolts. If u have a long type shield or t-bird shield u can simply trim it to fit the mustang like ford did as its thin plastic. The shield was first grey then black and having the same c7zb number but when and which plants did the black shields start showing up? Just remember the first time u had a dead battery or a starting problem this shield was often removed as being (in the way) as back then batteries needed water 3 times a year and they never lasted very long. Many got pitched at gas stations and battery stores back then. I think ford went from grey to black to blend in and match the black batteries and the grey showed acid stains and are often discolored with dark stains. The trunk luggage strip wheelhouse protecter was black then went to grey later so go figure.
Ed, thanks for the information. Even though I have been into these cars for a long time I always enjoy learning more information Your knowledge on parts and part #s is outstanding.
I believe this red KR was a June built car so would it be safe to say most 68 GT500 and KRs would have a grey battery heat shield with part # C7ZB ? Or could they also have a black shield real late?
Well i havent documented a 68 with a black shield or a 69 with a grey shield yet on a unmolested car. Back in the 80s when we started restoring these cars and u found a battery heat shield it was a great find and u didnt care what color it was or if long or short version and it went on a show car not really knowing if it was concours correct for that car. The black is more common so the repo was made black. Back in the 80s someone started a rumor that the long type was for a/c cars only but from my research that wasnt true after i found a long shield on an original owner 69 428 cj non a/c torino cobra and if u notice how the battery is mounted in fairlanes and torinos they are at an angle so the longer c70b shield is needed so the shield end goes past the radiator. Now on a mustang the battery mounts straight along the battery apron and the shield open end is in front of the rad to route cool air around the battery so if the long c70b is installed on a mustang with or without a/c it wont make any difference and the long c70b was to be used with the longer 27f battery. The heat shield was designed to route cool air coming thru the rad support metal cutout areas just in front of the battery and thats why the shield has that humped out area on the long front end to act as a scoop to route cool air around the battery case and thats why the shield has those 4 round bumps moulded in the side and the 2 raised lines on the front to hold shield away from battery to let cool air around the battery and the long c70b has a slight curled lip on the long front end to help route cool air since the battery mounts at an angle it dont get a direct routeing of cool air like the mustang battery mounting straight in line with the car. In 70 ford changed the design on the (black only) doof shield having a big curled opening on the front end and having the new 1970 metal radiator support cutout opening to line up with the new doof battery shield front curled lip to route a direct flow of cool air around the battery and this new design started on the 70 and up torinos and 71 and up mustangs radiator support design. The shield also helped keeping hot engine air off the battery case when the car was just sitting still parked at an idle so it served a purpose on bigblocks and a/c cars that had extreme heat under the hood.
I have found the short gray C7ZB battery shields on or in the trunk of several 1970 Boss 302's with the standard 21/22 series batteries. Jeff's photo appears to support this also.
Just to add a note my buddy's 70 SCJ mach 1 has a grey C7ZB shield as well- original owner. I thought it would have been black.
Canadian Mustang
Since this thread was about shelbys having battery shields i was focusing on 67 68 69 shelbys not 70 mustangs or 70 boss 302s. Snakeoil was your buddy 70 scj mach1 a dearborn or metuchen car? I went back thru all my old notes on 70 428cj cars and in my notes i have 2 70s with c7zb grey shields and both are NJ cars but not knowing the entire history on these 2 cars i cannot document this but the cars i did document i knew the entire history on especially original owner cars. The feb 69 428cj mach 1 we bought from a guy in CT. had bought it from his buddy when he came back from service in 1970 and it had a black c7zb shield and was NJ car. The 70 mustang assembly manual dated august 29 1969 says the new black doof shield replaces the c7zb shield so at NJ plant did they find some c7zb grey sheilds when rotating inventory and used them up in early 70 who knows for sure but i do know the grey was first then black and back years ago everybody wanted the grey ones on their car for show as the grey color stood out against the black battery and looked better than the black. I sold off my grey shields after i documented my 69 dearborn cars should have the black ones. What dont make sence is why would ford go from grey to black then back to grey unless some grey ones got mixed up in storeage or inventory whatever but all battery shields from 70 on were black. The 70 boss 302 photo that jeff s posted has california evap fuel system but i dont think that would matter on a heat shield but boss 302s had a big and small battery option so that could make a difference on using the battery shield. I know an original owner 70 boss 302 guy who still has his car and shows it some and he said his car never came with the shield but his car came with the small battery that sits farther away from the engine than the longer 24f optional boss 302 battery that mounts closer to the engine so you would think the 24f battery would use a shield before the smaller shorter battery but i dont know. This is one of them issues that could have only been documented when the cars were new as so many cars never had the shields reinstalled after the first battery changeout or unless somebody has any other paperwork other than the assembly manuals info?
Car was an early build in Dearborn. Thanks to all for interesting replies. Special Ed - another mystery for the books
Ok and looking at jeffs 70 boss photo that looks like a 70 dearborn car also (see radiator cap) so the grey c7zb shows up in both plants in early 70 anyway. So can anybody document a grey shield used in 69 in either plant?
Ed, The Green 70 Mach 1 Jacky Jones has that you have looked at is a Dearborn car. That car may be the best unrestored 70 Mach 1 out there and it also has a gray heatshield.
Jackys 70 mach1 is the best 70 428cj car i seen but i dont know the whole history on that car as jacky has lots of great cars and parts. I am only documenting 69 cars that i know the whole history on like the last car i bought from an estate that was OO lady owned a 69 dearborn cougar 351w a/c car and the black battery heat shield was still in the battery tray. What we are trying to document here is the grey vs black shields used on 67-69 shelbys and which cars got them as 67-68-69 shelbys were built in all 3 plants and its not a vendor change as i compared the short c7zb long c70b and cut off corner t-bird type and they are all off the same mould and no different marking between the grey vs black. Why does grey start out then black then back to grey then black from 70 on? The new design 70 doof d20b and d4db (that is 1/2'' shorter in height that someone was grinding off the numbers and selling years ago before a c7zb repo came out) are all black. We know back in the 80s restorers were putting whatever shield they could find on cars not knowing if concours correct or not. So back to the original ? Does anybody know of a 676869 shelby that still has its born with original battery heat shield and is it grey or black? Thanks
Ed ,
I will offer this, grey heat shields are not common out here in the west. Black is by FAR the predominate color. "I" have only owned one grey heat shield and it came from an Atlanta built Torino.
Agree with Randy in that we see much fewer if almost any gray version coming out of San Jose. Must have had 50 plus of the C7's and maybe 100 of the later versions. D4's worked well as a stand in in years past. In yards the batteries had to be removed before the cars were moved to the yard so the shields often got thrown in the trash or tossed some where in the car's interior or trunk
Don't know why the two colors. Likely two suppliers that supplied (primary and secondary) the different plants like so many other items. Its possible that the specifications did not specify the exact color on the blueprints. So many possible variables looking backwards in time
Quote from: Special Ed on March 16, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
.....So back to the original ? Does anybody know of a 676869 shelby that still has its born with original battery heat shield and is it grey or black? Thanks
Here is what appears (shield fits the look and condition of the rest of the car) to be an original on a 67 GT500
Looks like a black one with allot of acid burns and bleaching around the top edge
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-160321153653.jpeg)
Red GT500 Conv. Original battery was in the trunk - possibly why the shield was still around. Gray version
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-160321160131.jpeg)
Do have a few non-Mustang/Shelby examples also but don't want to mix things up. Also one 67 390 Mustang road test car with the odd first version with the post surround - for lack of a better term at the moment.
Great pics jeff but that 67 is grey and what we would expect . thanks
Quote from: Special Ed on March 16, 2021, 11:46:13 PM
Great pics jeff but that 67 is grey and what we would expect . thanks
Think I'm going to disagree (take a look at the color at the bottom right of the shield) especially being a later 67 San Jose built car. But its OK to disagree sometimes :)
The red KR is #3866 so it was built toward the end of June. It is 220 cars later than my car which was built on June 17. We know it had a grey battery heat shield that I own.
So ,if you are an original owner or know of any 1 owner cars with born with original battery heat shields could you please provide us with the data? This would be for 67,68,and 69 Shelbys. Maybe we can come up with some answers.
My 2/69 GT500, bought from original owner/family, still has its black battery heat shield found in trunk drop. Had to google part number to be sure what it was.
Red GT500 Convertible in reply #27 is 2444
Thanks Hockeylife and Jeff.,
Is your 69 A/C or no A/C and the same on your car Jeff.A/C or no? Jeff,would you put production date at May something?
Thanks
Brad
Quote from: whiteykr on March 17, 2021, 04:58:37 PM
....................Jeff.A/C or no? Jeff,would you put production date at May something?
AC on that example
Would need a Marti report to be sure of any completion date at Ford. Have examples with higher VINs and Shelby numbers completed in Feb 1968 for example. Guess would be Feb also 1968
Quote from: whiteykr on March 17, 2021, 04:58:37 PM
Thanks Hockeylife and Jeff.,
Is your 69 A/C or no A/C and the same on your car Jeff.A/C or no? Jeff,would you put production date at May something?
Thanks
Brad
Yes, car is A/C.