How would I go about getting the most current judging sheets for my 69 350?
Thank you
Quote from: SChatman on February 02, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
How would I go about getting the most current judging sheets for my 69 350?
Thank you
Jim Cowles passing no doubt will complicate your request . It may be too soon to expect a answer to your question. Bob Perkins is the Co Chairman of the concours venue with our friend RIP. Jim Cowles.
Try to contact Mike Shally
The judging sheets contain very little information that will be useful during a restoration, if thats your reason for wanting to see them.
Finding someone who has an old one from a past event may be more helpful
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 05, 2021, 07:30:11 AM
The judging sheets contain very little information that will be useful during a restoration, if thats your reason for wanting to see them.
Finding someone who has an old one from a past event may be more helpful
+1, they are mainly a tool used for judging, not restoring.
Thanks guys
I can not help but to agree with SCHATMAN---realistically immense knowledge in hands with very small number will eventually disappear as does individuals get older and being unable to advise new generation in corretnes and compliance to assembly line practices. At that point new buyers will slowly abandoned idea of having cars that meet assembly line specs because it will be next to impossible to argue fact what is correct and everybody will star making its own rules. Personally I have had offer previously to some degree help finance compiling and publishing such criteria ,but unfortunately that there was not a single entity willing to discus . I look at my own children they love 60's muscle cars , but no way they would be willing to spent countless hours determining originality unless they would have reference material--however this is only my opinion , and I know I will get ton of PM all in the same context "HOW DARE U" b---back to football game
Back in the 80s before internet we had to learn concours restoration info on our own by looking at unmolested cars only. Now there have been so many magazines. books. registries. marti reports etc But the BEST & FREE concours info now is Jeff Speegles Concours Mustang site that covers all years mustang and shelby info is at your fingertips as u can do a search to find any info u need. I talked 2 guys who had 1970 low mile unrestored shelbys into coming to our show last fall the IN fall classic to celabrate the only 50th annivarsary 1970 shelby event ever held (see the in saac regional meet posts). 1 car had 540 miles from NY and the other 6000 miles from missouri and if u would have come to this event with your camera all your ?s would be answered by inspecting these unrestored cars . All of my research comes from unmolested cars NOT other peoples restorations as i learned long ago not to copy instead do my own research and note when and where the car was built u are studying to document all the details. I have taken 1000s of car detail photos over last 40 years and i bet jeff speegle has taken countless thousands of detail photos over the years and he shares them with anybody who asks as he is the president of concours info just look at his site and see what i mean.
Thank ED----Like it or not ED U are icon and when I read yours and some other guys blogs it is impossible to look at you guys within being concern that all that knowledge might one day just vanish, and that why I think we should all pool resources and make sure that your knowledge is available for generations to come----I worked in industry where people would work for free just to have chance , however employers are paying us insane amount not for work we do but for what we know, and I will stand behind conviction that physical work restoring and maintaining the car is something it could be learned ,bot knowledge that U have it is impossible to put price on it---thank for your support
Thanks for the very kind comments Ed.
Just to set the record straight and full disclosure the site belongs to Charles Turner and I but is a result of many hours by many members since the begining. I just just have a bit more time that I choose to apply to posting and organizing.
For those who dont know about jeff & charles site its called (concours mustang forum) and its been around for more than 12 years or so and thats a lot of info to collect. Yes charles should get much credit for this site being more into the early car but i follow jeff more since he seems to be more into the latter cars like i work on and document. I help out mostly on the dearborn cars since thats my interest and jeff being from SJ area has countless SJ car photos since cars dont rust away out far west like in the midwest and east cars. John i write down all my concours notes in my black books and onto photos so this info isnt lost or forgotten over the last 40 years and i am glad i did as my memory isnt what it used to be and i will be 66 shortly. I have learned over the years if u teach yourself something u will remember it more than someone else just telling u something as u cant teach somebody something they dont want to learn right?
Quote from: Special Ed on February 08, 2021, 11:57:59 AM
For those who dont know about jeff & charles site its called (concours mustang forum) and its been around for more than 12 years or so and thats a lot of info to collect. Yes charles should get much credit for this site being more into the early car but i follow jeff more since he seems to be more into the latter cars like i work on and document. I help out mostly on the dearborn cars since thats my interest and jeff being from SJ area has countless SJ car photos since cars dont rust away out far west like in the midwest and east cars. ................
I've actually have about equal amounts of pictures and notes across all the years to help with responses. It's just that for Mustangs there has always been allot of people into 65-66's. Because of that there is often more members to help respond to those threads. This may be because more attention was given to those cars earlier than the others - with even some clubs limiting their membership to only those two years in the late 70's or so
Because there is often more help there I try and fill out where needed. San Jose cars are what I grew up on, being only an hour from the plant, but have traveled and collected pictures from around the country and from overseas through the unselfish sharing of owners and shops I've meet through the decades.
Appreciate your postings and adding your experiences and knowledge to the discussions as I do others.
SpecialEd is right...Jeff has a ton of great material and is always willing to help, the same goes for several people that post frequently
one question I don't think I have ever seen answered is the 4 speed vacuum advance on a 1970 Shelby. All GT350 69s used a single advance. My 70 GT350 4 speed car has the original "ED" distributor with a dual advance that was never off the distributor in my opinion. My vert is pretty correct parts wise and where it isn't I have most of the parts to make it correct. Now my under carriage paint (all red and as nice as the red top) and BC/CC on the top are not and that was my preference at the time of resto 20 years ago. Ed has looked over my car before and pointed things out(thanks again Ed) and eventually I'll get it all "correct" but it scored a MCA gold in 2003(685 out of 700) but wouldn't score gold right now in SAAC div 2 I bet. I have been driving my car since then. When I retire I think I'll start tearing it down and upgrading parts on it. Gary
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on February 10, 2021, 07:16:23 AM
one question I don't think I have ever seen answered is the 4 speed vacuum advance on a 1970 Shelby. All GT350 69s used a single advance. My 70 GT350 4 speed car has the original "ED" distributor with a dual advance that was never off the distributor in my opinion. My vert is pretty correct parts wise and where it isn't I have most of the parts to make it correct. Now my under carriage paint (all red and as nice as the red top) and BC/CC on the top are not and that was my preference at the time of resto 20 years ago. Ed has looked over my car before and pointed things out(thanks again Ed) and eventually I'll get it all "correct" but it scored a MCA gold in 2003(685 out of 700) but wouldn't score gold right now in SAAC div 2 I bet. I have been driving my car since then. When I retire I think I'll start tearing it down and upgrading parts on it. Gary
The concours expectations are a evolving process and with more information comes a change in expectations . Thank goodness for the legacy of the marque that the rules are not stuck in the past but evolving. Evolving for the better hopefully.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 10, 2021, 11:27:30 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on February 10, 2021, 07:16:23 AM
one question I don't think I have ever seen answered is the 4 speed vacuum advance on a 1970 Shelby. All GT350 69s used a single advance. My 70 GT350 4 speed car has the original "ED" distributor with a dual advance that was never off the distributor in my opinion. My vert is pretty correct parts wise and where it isn't I have most of the parts to make it correct. Now my under carriage paint (all red and as nice as the red top) and BC/CC on the top are not and that was my preference at the time of resto 20 years ago. Ed has looked over my car before and pointed things out(thanks again Ed) and eventually I'll get it all "correct" but it scored a MCA gold in 2003(685 out of 700) but wouldn't score gold right now in SAAC div 2 I bet. I have been driving my car since then. When I retire I think I'll start tearing it down and upgrading parts on it. Gary
The concours expectations are a evolving process and with more information comes a change in expectations . Thank goodness for the legacy of the marque that the rules are not stuck in the past but evolving. Evolving for the better hopefully.
I believe they are. Restorations have been getting much better since I did my vert(1996-2002) and I have learned things that I did wrong on my vert when I had it judged and also over the years what were more correct parts like a button top fuel pump. One day I'll tear my vert back apart and get serious to bring it back up to gold status. Been driving so that takes its toll on Exhaust manifolds and engine paint, ECS stickers, wear on hood twist lock brackets etc. Doesn't look too bad for a 20 year resto(TIME FLIES) but its almost time to tear it apart. But if I get another 70 Shelby vert or a 68 GT500 then it may have to wait....Gary