I'm not one to post just for conversation but it maybe will save someone my mistake. I'm finishing up my restoration and trying my best to stay faithful in originality within reason and budget (other than color change lime gold to nighmist, it's been fun to read the posts) the only thing I wanted to change was exhaust system with headers so it could breath better and sound better. I knew it was going to be a struggle but come on! I did all the stuff, valve cover off, engine up, driver's side, on and on. Of course trying my best not to nick or scratch the newly painted everything. I went with the JBA try y's thinking they would fit the best after looking at all the header reviews. I had to dent( sorry clearance) the passengers side because the hit the shock tower, clearance ( let's be honest dent ) around steering gear, and driver's side shock tower, there wasn't room to get the collector bolt in on the passenger side floor pan. If you're thinking about doing headers I wouldn't!
Does this mean you're driving around with only two bolts on the starboard collector?
The headers that will fit a 67 GT500 are Hooker 6113. The small block, JBA 6610. Anything else is a crap shoot.
This subject has been discussed here many times. You need to know who to listen too, 8)
Quote from: tonys_shelby on August 11, 2020, 10:26:41 AM
I'm not one to post just for conversation but it maybe will save someone my mistake. I'm finishing up my restoration and trying my best to stay faithful in originality within reason and budget (other than color change lime gold to nightmist, it's been fun to read the posts) the only thing I wanted to change was exhaust system with headers so it could breath better and sound better. I knew it was going to be a struggle but come on! I did all the stuff, valve cover off, engine up, driver's side, on and on. Of course trying my best not to nick or scratch the newly painted everything. I went with the JBA try y's thinking they would fit the best after looking at all the header reviews. I had to dent( sorry clearance) the passengers side because the hit the shock tower, clearance ( let's be honest dent ) around steering gear, and driver's side shock tower, there wasn't room to get the collector bolt in on the passenger side floor pan. If you're thinking about doing headers I wouldn't!
Hello Tony,
Sorry to hear that you have such bad luck with your JBA Tri-Ys. We installed them on 0100 two years ago and everything fit great. We did not have do any clearancing at all and we were able to get all of the bolts installed without too much difficulty.
Good luck,
Eric
Quote from: tonys_shelby on August 11, 2020, 10:26:41 AM
I'm not one to post just for conversation but it maybe will save someone my mistake. I'm finishing up my restoration and trying my best to stay faithful in originality within reason and budget (other than color change lime gold to nighmist, it's been fun to read the posts) the only thing I wanted to change was exhaust system with headers so it could breath better and sound better. I knew it was going to be a struggle but come on! I did all the stuff, valve cover off, engine up, driver's side, on and on. Of course trying my best not to nick or scratch the newly painted everything. I went with the JBA try y's thinking they would fit the best after looking at all the header reviews. I had to dent( sorry clearance) the passengers side because the hit the shock tower, clearance ( let's be honest dent ) around steering gear, and driver's side shock tower, there wasn't room to get the collector bolt in on the passenger side floor pan. If you're thinking about doing headers I wouldn't!
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=11584.0 I posted this with you in mind .Maybe it is relevant to your situation and maybe not. How does your export brace fit? does it just drop on are do you have to pry it in place to fit? If it is relevant then it doesn't matter now because yours are in but maybe someone else will benefit .
Quote from: tonys_shelby on August 11, 2020, 10:26:41 AM
I'm not one to post just for conversation but it maybe will save someone my mistake. I'm finishing up my restoration and trying my best to stay faithful in originality within reason and budget (other than color change lime gold to nighmist, it's been fun to read the posts) the only thing I wanted to change was exhaust system with headers so it could breath better and sound better. I knew it was going to be a struggle but come on! I did all the stuff, valve cover off, engine up, driver's side, on and on. Of course trying my best not to nick or scratch the newly painted everything. I went with the JBA try y's thinking they would fit the best after looking at all the header reviews. I had to dent( sorry clearance) the passengers side because the hit the shock tower, clearance ( let's be honest dent ) around steering gear, and driver's side shock tower, there wasn't room to get the collector bolt in on the passenger side floor pan. If you're thinking about doing headers I wouldn't!
Interesting you posted this as I was considering Tri-Y's as well. I posted a question over on the Shelby Group and Vintage Mustang group on FB asking what kind of issues people had installing them on their 67 with power steering, manual car. I received quite a bit of feedback and comments, it appears most were successful with Patriot Tri-Y's and a drop down bracket for the power steering, some had minor issues with a z-bar clearance. No one mentioned the issues you posted above. A friend of mine installed the set up on his 68 without major issue as well. Maybe your issue is with the JBA Tri-Y's.
Just curious, what was your plan for mufflers and pipe size?
Bob, I haven't reinstalled the export brace yet after having it sent off for paint but I had it in when I sent it off and I know they test fit it at least once when it was in there. I hope it still fits in nicely but maybe that's a little bit a the issue. The lower brace was /is in the car to keep things together. Collector bolt question No it's in there I had to winch the header down enough to get a nut behind the flange with a bolt just short enough to thread in.
Quote from: tonys_shelby on August 11, 2020, 05:00:13 PM
Bob, I haven't reinstalled the export brace yet after having it sent off for paint but I had it in when I sent it off and I know they test fit it at least once when it was in there. I hope it still fits in nicely but maybe that's a little bit a the issue. The lower brace was /is in the car to keep things together. Collector bolt question No it's in there I had to winch the header down enough to get a nut behind the flange with a bolt just short enough to thread in.
It should practically drop on . The degree that it doesn't drop on translates into clearance variations down below.
Thanks Bob. I'm going to check it today. God I hope it does because it will change all the front sheet metal alignment if wrong. I asked 2 times for the shop to make sure it was Ok. I know it's a real issue. I've had more early mustangs than I should count and they ALL had shock tower collapse. I'll keep up dated.
Thats OK. Wait until you try and fit the tailpipes over the rear axle, past the gas tank, and try to not have it rattle or be too close to anything like the axle vent line and the rear brake hose. That too is a pistol.
So test fit export brace, a little off maybe overall 3/16" so got out the portable hydraulic spreader, removed carb, supported car from lower brace and had to spread it almost 3/4" to get it to stay at the correct mark. It wasn't enough to change anything down at the midpoint of the shock tower but I figure every little bit helps.
Yes the transverse exhaust should be fun but at least factory.
Quote from: tonys_shelby on August 12, 2020, 05:08:39 PM
So test fit export brace, a little off maybe overall 3/16" so got out the portable hydraulic spreader, removed carb, supported car from lower brace and had to spread it almost 3/4" to get it to stay at the correct mark. It wasn't enough to change anything down at the midpoint of the shock tower but I figure every little bit helps.
Yes the transverse exhaust should be fun but at least factory.
At the header level you will only gain half that in total. So half of that per side, so you see it really isn't the shock towers that are the header clearance issue. It's the headers themselves.
3/64" isn't going to help you out much with the clearance. Good fitting headers will.
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 13, 2020, 10:01:15 AM
3/64" isn't going to help you out much with the clearance. Good fitting headers will.
3/64" may not, but 3/4" should.
I wish hooker would do a 3/8 flange and socket collector. I've always had great luck with fit but they end up leaking. I end up cutting off the collector and installing sockets. I had heard the try y's from JBA we're good but they must have talking about a small block.
Quote from: 2112 on August 13, 2020, 01:26:16 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 13, 2020, 10:01:15 AM
3/64" isn't going to help you out much with the clearance. Good fitting headers will.
3/64" may not, but 3/4" should.
And how do you propose to get 3/4" additional clearance on each header? That means you need 1-1/2" at header level and would need to push out the top of the shock tower 3 inches total. 1-1/2" each side.
I have never seen that done.
The simplest solution is to get a set that fit "well enough". With FE Mustangs, that can be complicated.
The Hookers do fit and are not problem free but are the least problematic I think?
The biggest thing I don't like on the Hookers is that they angle the collector down. So the entire collector isn't low. The end is near the flange.
IF you compare the collector height to the original H pipe, right at that spot they are almost the same. The H pipe begins to curve up at that point.
As low as the Hookers seem, you will rarely see scrape marks on them from bottoming out?
I'd prefer a larger primary tube with them also.They are 1-3/4 but seem smaller. 2" would be about right.
Actually, the best fit I've ever seen is a now defunct one called "Pro Stock". It was an in house brand for Gratiot Auto Supply in Detroit.
I would never suggest and also think it is a very bad idea to push the shock towers past what they were intended to be from Ford.
Did anyone say front end alignment yet after the "push"? Or is that a given. Just check'in.
Cheers
~ Earl J
Quote from: SFM5S000 on August 13, 2020, 08:17:26 PM
Did anyone say front end alignment yet after the "push"? Or is that a given. Just check'in.
Cheers
~ Earl J
Theoretically if the one piece export brace was on before the push then the dimensions should be the same when the shock towers are pushed out so that the export brace drops on without a fight. The brace in place confirms everything should be the same . It is just that now the export brace is not holding the shock towers apart under tension. I know it doesn't take much to change settings so It doesn't hurt to recheck and verify alignment settings.
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 13, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
And how do you propose to get 3/4" additional clearance on each header? That means you need 1-1/2" at header level and would need to push out the top of the shock tower 3 inches total. 1-1/2" each side.
I have never seen that done.
I misread your post. I meant 3/4" between shock towers, which is 3/8" per side.
Quote from: 2112 on August 13, 2020, 11:34:29 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 13, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
And how do you propose to get 3/4" additional clearance on each header? That means you need 1-1/2" at header level and would need to push out the top of the shock tower 3 inches total. 1-1/2" each side.
I have never seen that done.
I misread your post. I meant 3/4" between shock towers, which is 3/8" per side.
That dimension is only at the top of the towers where you move them.
The bottom of the triangle is a fixed point. You are not pushing the rails out, only pivoting the shock towers at the top. So with the geometry involved, you are only getting about one half at the header level as you are at the top of the towers.
By moving them you are also changing the location of where the upper control arms mount and changing the suspension geometry.
Ford had a similar idea when they did the Boss 429 shock tower modification.There they shortened the upper arm and the upper arm on the Boss 9 is unique.
Do you really want to do this to fit headers?
As I pointed out, to me, this IS "setting a cannon to kill a mosquito".
Occum's Razor: get headers that fit right off and simplify the solution?
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 13, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
Occum's Razor: Get headers that fit right off and simplify the solution ?
+1
This guy fit the Hooker Super comps on ,not that I plan on going that route but does it really make a huge difference in sound & performance versus just putting a nice full exhaust system on?
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/shelby/gt500/2424922.html
Exhaust systems are engineered to fit an existing engine, car set up. A few key elements are engine size, horsepower, rpm, top end or low down torque, standard crappy bends or mandrel bends. Some restriction is needed for proper running engine in a certain parameter. One size does not fit all! Most all of your sound your looking for is within the crossover pipe... x pipe or h pipe and how many chambers your mufflers have. Good Luck!
Quote from: 68krrrr on August 21, 2020, 11:23:09 AM
This guy fit the Hooker Super comps on ,not that I plan on going that route but does it really make a huge difference in sound & performance versus just putting a nice full exhaust system on?
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/shelby/gt500/2424922.html
Full length headers do make a difference particularly on an FE over iron or shorty headers.
As stated, you will find or experience an rpm peak with them. That is what they are tuned to.
Hookers with a 1-3/4" primary tube are going to peak in the 5,500 to 6,000 rpm range. A bigger tube like 2", higher.
Tuning the exhaust sound is going to be to your taste. I would recommend 2-1/2" pipes, balance tube, and two chamber Flowmaster "Turbo" mufflers.
You can pick up some top rpm horsepower with 3" pipes but you are going to pay the price sound wise.
You can also go to a three chamber Flowmaster which at one time were refered to as "Hemi" mufflers. They are quieter for sure but also more restrictive.
The 2 chamber mufflers will fit in the rear seat dimple in the floor pans but the three chamber won't.
The picture you posted is pretty much a maxed out street muffler system. You definitely will hear the headers on it. Iron manifolds will make the engine sound calmer but loose around 100 hp over headers.
Of course you also need a cam that will take advantage of the headers by using increased overlap which aids in the exhaust scavaging the long tube headers do. That's around 63 degrees of overlap and up. Under that, don't even bother with headers. They won't be doing anything except making noise.
Didn´t there were some handbuilt FE headers for a mustang from 2 companys? I forgot the name one was stainless and appx 1500$ and the other one from frpp or something like this.
Quote from: Kent on August 21, 2020, 01:51:32 PM
Didn´t there were some handbuilt FE headers for a mustang from 2 companys? I forgot the name one was stainless and appx 1500$ and the other one from frpp or something like this.
Bob Gaines had a spectacular set on his GT500. Actually the term "hand made" is kind of a misnomer.
They are all hand made. That can be part of the issue with "production made" headers.
Some points are so critical that if they are off the mark by 1/8", they won't fit and maybe won't even go in?
According to the folks at Cobra Automotive, a set made for you on the car STARTS at $3500.
Has anyone bought and installed a set of JBA 6610S into an early 65/66? I'm shopping for headers these days looking to replace a set of "nut dragging (hang too low)" Hooker Super Comps. I don't care for Shelby tri-y's (Too restrictive) but being too cheap for Cobra Auto's custom tri-y'. Doug's tri-y's are ugly to me. So... looking to hear feedback if anyone has gone the JBA route.
Thanks,
~Earl J
Quote from: SFM5S000 on August 22, 2020, 10:29:08 AM
Has anyone bought and installed a set of JBA 6610S into an early 65/66? I'm shopping for headers these days looking to replace a set of "nut dragging (hang too low)" Hooker Super Comps. I don't care for Shelby tri-y's (Too restrictive) but being too cheap for Cobra Auto's custom tri-y'. Doug's tri-y's are ugly to me. So... looking to hear feedback if anyone has gone the JBA route.
Thanks,
~Earl J
On my '68. Not what you asked but they told me they were made to fit, 65 through 70 Mustang small blocks.
I can also tell you that they revised the left side to clear the Pitman arm on #5.
I don't know what the difference is with the "quick steering kit" on an early car.
Randy has already commented that even the original tri-y's hit there and speculated it was because the original pattern was made on the regular steering idler and Pitman?
Quote from: 68krrrr on August 21, 2020, 11:23:09 AM
This guy fit the Hooker Super comps on ,not that I plan on going that route but does it really make a huge difference in sound & performance versus just putting a nice full exhaust system on?
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/shelby/gt500/2424922.html
That is a nice car (early too) but man, it is suspended like a 4 x 4. I wonder if that is to keep the headers off the blacktop.
Dragging headers is a deal-breaker for me. Stan's don't drag, but they can get in the way of clutch linkage. ::)
I realize that Stan isn't always the easiest guy to talk with. :D But the headers I bought from him for my KR fit easily, have great ground clearance (the bellhousing is lower to the ground than the collectors) and I haven't had any loose header bolts.
BTW: My car does not have P/S, P/B or A/C. It does have a hydraulic clutch.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on August 22, 2020, 03:52:13 PM
I realize that Stan isn't always the easiest guy to talk with. :D But the headers I bought from him for my KR fit easily, have great ground clearance (the bellhousing is lower to the ground than the collectors) and I haven't had any loose header bolts.
BTW: My car does not have P/S, P/B or A/C. It does have a hydraulic clutch.
You don't speak to Stan. He grants you audience. Then if you ask him something he doesn't like, do they fit a manual transmission car, he goes apeshit.
That's not a stupid question regardless of how he feels about it and the actual answer is only if you use a hydraulic clutch.
I don't need to call anyone to take abuse. I can get that here at home.
What's the difference how low the collectors are? The c6 pan is even with them. I will point out that they are only "low" by about 1/2 the thickness of a primary tube or stated another way, they could only go up about another inch.
Just giving a description of the fit on my particular car. I'm no fan of Stan's phone demeanor either. Never met him in person.
But I do like his headers.
My car has a Top-Loader.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on August 22, 2020, 05:25:35 PM
Just giving a description of the fit on my particular car. I'm no fan of Stan's phone demeanor either. Never met him in person.
But I do like his headers.
My car has a Top-Loader.
OK. Do they fit the stock clutch linkage?
Can't recall. I didn't do the install. It was about 6 years ago.
I do know that it took some trial and error to get a clutch master cylinder that would do the job.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on August 22, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
Can't recall. I didn't do the install. It was about 6 years ago.
I do know that it took some trial and error to get a clutch master cylinder that would do the job.
So the answer is no, they use a hydraulic clutch or an automatic transmission.
That is the answer Stan gave me as well. So with a manual trans, they are hardly just simple "bolt-ons".
The Hookers aren't necessarily too low. It is the angle of the collectors pointing down that causes the concern. I'd rather "adjust" the collectors rather then modify the car further.
I get you, Doug. My header install was on a new S-O engine, so we dropped it in. The details of the clutch had faded into my foggy memory, but what you point out is correct.
Stan never yelled at me over the phone. But I have heard numerous horror stories about the guy. I would've hung up if he had, and bought something else.
A pal with a '67 GT500 with a S-O did the same thing as I did to install Stan's headers. Stan didn't yell at him either. I guess we both got him on a good day.
Bottom line is that I like the headers. Stan is a jerk. That about covers my experience.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on August 23, 2020, 03:36:28 PM
I get you, Doug. My header install was on a new S-O engine, so we dropped it in. The details of the clutch had faded into my foggy memory, but what you point out is correct.
Stan never yelled at me over the phone. But I have heard numerous horror stories about the guy. I would've hung up if he had, and bought something else.
A pal with a '67 GT500 with a S-O did the same thing as I did to install Stan's headers. Stan didn't yell at him either. I guess we both got him on a good day.
Bottom line is that I like the headers. Stan is a jerk. That about covers my experience.
I don't care about Stan. Maybe I got him on a good day?
He gave me the information that I needed and I didn't buy his headers. Incidentally, at that point the price was no longer listed on the web page and it said call for pricing.
Part of the discussion on his part was, "I won't sell you my headers". I still don't know what they cost?
I'm using the stock clutch linkage in my 67 GT500 so his headers won't fit my application and there seems to be a general fog that some posters are in thinking that they mysteriously will fit their cars with the stock linkage.
I'll just stay out of it in the future and let everyone learn on their own by hard knocks. 8)
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 23, 2020, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on August 23, 2020, 03:36:28 PM
I get you, Doug. My header install was on a new S-O engine, so we dropped it in. The details of the clutch had faded into my foggy memory, but what you point out is correct.
Stan never yelled at me over the phone. But I have heard numerous horror stories about the guy. I would've hung up if he had, and bought something else.
A pal with a '67 GT500 with a S-O did the same thing as I did to install Stan's headers. Stan didn't yell at him either. I guess we both got him on a good day.
Bottom line is that I like the headers. Stan is a jerk. That about covers my experience.
I don't care about Stan. Maybe I got him on a good day?
He gave me the information that I needed and I didn't buy his headers. Incidentally, at that point the price was no longer listed on the web page and it said call for pricing.
Part of the discussion on his part was, "I won't sell you my headers". I still don't know what they cost?
I'm using the stock clutch linkage in my 67 GT500 so his headers won't fit my application and there seems to be a general fog that some posters are in thinking that they mysteriously will fit their cars with the stock linkage.
I'll just stay out of it in the future and let everyone learn on their own by hard knocks. 8)
I agree that you can't use the stock clutch linkage on a FE with Stan's headers. (At least not on my KR.)
I have no experience with any other engine/header/steering/trans/radio/upholstery color combination in this regard.
Doug, FPA headers do fit with the stock linkage.. I run them on my 67 GT 500 with the factory Z bar..
They do require a couple of small mods.. One is, one pipe runs close to the block skirt.. fixed that with a file.. The other was the bottom of the Z bar, I filed that too as a precaution, as it seemed to run close to one of the pipes..
The biggest issue I hade was the passenger side.. the top bolt from the idler arm touches one pipe..
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 22, 2020, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: SFM5S000 on August 22, 2020, 10:29:08 AM
Has anyone bought and installed a set of JBA 6610S into an early 65/66? I'm shopping for headers these days looking to replace a set of "nut dragging (hang too low)" Hooker Super Comps. I don't care for Shelby tri-y's (Too restrictive) but being too cheap for Cobra Auto's custom tri-y'. Doug's tri-y's are ugly to me. So... looking to hear feedback if anyone has gone the JBA route.
Thanks,
~Earl J
On my '68. Not what you asked but they told me they were made to fit, 65 through 70 Mustang small blocks.
I can also tell you that they revised the left side to clear the Pitman arm on #5.
I don't know what the difference is with the "quick steering kit" on an early car.
Randy has already commented that even the original tri-y's hit there and speculated it was because the original pattern was made on the regular steering idler and Pitman?
Hello Doug,
On occasion you'll post a pic. Could you post a pic of the top of your 6610 JBA's in relation to the shock towers? Both sides. Nothing else.
I found a guy who installed a set of 6610 JBA's on an early 66 (GT350 probably and more than likely a replica/clone) that looks like a T5 and Global West front suspension uppers and lowers. From the photos he's also running a hydraulic clutch.
What interests me is how tucked up the primaries and collectors are. (Side view pic) As well as a few pics of the steering box area from the bottom.
I have no idea who owns this car, but he took photos that are useful to me.
Can you tell I'm leaning this route but will retain the stock clutch linkage (z-bar etc.) is my intent.
Thanks,
~Earl J
Manana. Too late for today.
I think that Randy has them right now on his '66 but sure, tomorrow.
I screwed around with the z-bars then finally made my own so expect some work there.
Believe it or not, the biggest problem is with the spark plug access on #2 and #3. I had to grind down a spark plug socket to clear the tubes there with the AFR heads.
I had them on the stock iron heads also without this problem so I suspect that AFR changed the angle of the plugs a little?
It's still tight and I've broken the porcelain on those plugs several times as well os #8.
You are correct in that they do tuck up very well. Mine is a lowered car too so everything helps.
Those pictures that you just posted are very accurate with showing the clearances.
That would be great. No rush, at your leisure.
I think you're right about Randy running these. If he sees this post he might chime in.
For comparison I'll post a side pic of how low Hooker Super Comps hang after my morning errands.
The heads on my car are Louie Unser ported HiPo heads according to Randy, based on the head porters stamps. According to Randy, Louie Unser did port work for SAI in later years, I'm guessing for some of the Group I/II sedans in addition to Valley Head Service, Mondello and I forget the other company.
~E
There are no points of clearance issues from the top. The tubes are all clearanced well enough and the headers slip in easily during installation.
No problems other then the plugs I mentioned which MAY be an AFR issue rather then a JBA issue.
I'd recommend them to you but I'd wait for Randy's input.
In all fairness to JBA, they are 1-3/4" primary tubes. Hookers, which I had on the car are smaller. Like Dolly said, "this is what you get when you put ten pounds of mud in a five pound sugar sack"?
Thanks for doing that! You have clearance for days, wow.
The Hookers have 1 5/8" primaries where the JBA's have 1 3/4".
This is what I hate about the Hookers. They hang so low (see pic). Compare that to the pic above...
Thanks again for doing that.
~E
Quote from: SFM5S000 on August 24, 2020, 02:03:10 PM
Thanks for doing that! You have clearance for days, wow.
The Hookers have 1 5/8" primaries where the JBA's have 1 3/4".
This is what I hate about the Hookers. They hang so low (see pic).
Thanks again for doing that.
~E
Yes. Plenty on top. On the bottom where they turn to the back, the right side is close to the chassis rail and the left side is close at the steering box. You couldn't fit a finger in between but then all they need is a little clearance which is what they have.
The pictures that you posted are accurate as far as clearances go. When the car is on the ground you just see the end of the collector near the flange. If you look at the top of the collectors they are close to the floor reinforcement. Within maybe 3/8" so they really couldn't go very mush higher.
I like the bigger primary tubes. I've had as large as 2" primaries when running "Boss heads". Those headers actually fit better even with the bigger tubes. Those were 3-1/2" collectors too.
I use the bottom of the bellhouse and the bottom of the square floor reinforcements as where the limit of the bottom of the headers should be.
I ALMOST took my torch and cut and raised the Hookers but the bigger JBA tubes convinced me of a different course of action.
I'd be surprized if you didn't like the JBA's. I'll remind you though that my first set had to be sent back because the Pitman arm hit the #5 tube and the car couldn't turn left even 1%.
The design has been corrected on this set though so make sure yours are not old stock and are fresh.