I have recently seen two different 68 KR's that did not have a snorkel for the air cleaner and seemed to have a block off plat at the area where it would have attached.. Was this a factory option or a dealer option? Any information is much appreciated.
Quote from: Banzainj on February 09, 2024, 03:39:43 PM
I have recently seen two different 68 KR's that did not have a snorkel for the air cleaner and seemed to have a block off plat at the area where it would have attached.. Was this a factory option or a dealer option? Any information is much appreciated.
Most likely a past owner option. ;)
I agree with MrGaines, there was no such option.
All GT500 KRs were equipped with the heatshield on the manifold, s-tube and "snorkel" (heat duct).
The vehicles you saw were likely modified in other ways as well. We are 50 plus years out, very few cars are unmodified
Thanks, that what I expected, but with Shelby's you never know.
These cars being over 50 years old mods like this many times were "day 2" mods for a variety of reasons so 50 years later on an "untouched car for decades they could show patina like original. Ford didn't spend $$$$$$ on tooling for a unique Shelby item like the KR Snorkel unless a car NEEDED it for a variety of reasons.
The unique KR only snorkle was made from a 68 ford snorkle offset then a 68 black AMC snorkle extension then the 68 ford end that the s-tube connects to the cj heat shield. The unique KR s-tube was a modified cj part haveing 3 holes at top and 3 notches on bottom where as regular 68 cj s-tube only had 1 hole at top and 1 notch at bottom. These KR modified parts were made due to the wider KR alum valve cover vs the regular 68 1/2 cj chrome valve covers.
Yes Ed I said for a variety of reasons but it had to be modified for one purpose and that was the taller LeMans valve covers. The other reasons were based on stock applications like all 68s having a snorkel ,heat shield and S tube so it had to be produced also to match those components whether it was emissions or drivability for "performance" so to speak.
My KR still has the snorkel, but I'm still learning. What exactly is this for? Sorry that I ask.
Michael
The snorkel,s-tube and heat shield assembly have a dual function. When the car is started from cold the thermostatic controlled flapper valve allows the incoming air to be heated by passing over the right hand exhaust manifold up thru the S tube and into the snorkel and air cleaner. This helps with cold drivability issues such as stumble and stalls. It also lessens emissions. The warm air helps atomize the fuel better. Once the incoming air temperature reaches its control point the flapper valve closes off the heat shield/ S tube air and allows cooler unheated air to enter from the end of the snorkel for better performance and helps prevent pre ignition. That is how the system is designed to work on another car except a KR! On a KR with an uncontrolled Ram Air system ( no ram air flapper valve as on a RPO Ford/Merc CJ ) with the vast majority of engine air intake coming in from the ram air I would think the the heat shield, s-tube and snorkel would have very little effect on preheating the intake air when cold.
Rodney
Quote from: Special Ed on February 10, 2024, 07:45:30 AM
The unique KR only snorkle was made from a 68 ford snorkle offset then a 68 black AMC snorkle extension then the 68 ford end that the s-tube connects to the cj heat shield. The unique KR s-tube was a modified cj part haveing 3 holes at top and 3 notches on bottom where as regular 68 cj s-tube only had 1 hole at top and 1 notch at bottom. These KR modified parts were made due to the wider KR alum valve cover vs the regular 68 1/2 cj chrome valve covers.
The non-Hertz 390 equipped XR7-G Cougars also needed a unique snorkel to clear the Shelby Cougar finned aluminum valve covers and it too utilized a '68 AMC snorkel extension.
The technical drawings were created by Shelby Automotive and I guess it was a part of Smith's duties to weld them up and (of course) install them? Wonder why the KR snorkel wasn't used in both applications?
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/134-110224105026.jpeg)
Quote from: propayne on February 11, 2024, 10:50:53 AM
Quote from: Special Ed on February 10, 2024, 07:45:30 AM
The unique KR only snorkle was made from a 68 ford snorkle offset then a 68 black AMC snorkle extension then the 68 ford end that the s-tube connects to the cj heat shield. The unique KR s-tube was a modified cj part haveing 3 holes at top and 3 notches on bottom where as regular 68 cj s-tube only had 1 hole at top and 1 notch at bottom. These KR modified parts were made due to the wider KR alum valve cover vs the regular 68 1/2 cj chrome valve covers.
The non-Hertz 390 equipped XR7-G Cougars also needed a unique snorkel to clear the Shelby Cougar finned aluminum valve covers and it too utilized a '68 AMC snorkel extension.
The technical drawings were created by Shelby Automotive and I guess it was a part of Smith's duties to weld them up and (of course) install them? Wonder why the KR snorkel wasn't used in both applications?
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/134-110224105026.jpeg)
A simple answer could be the air cleaner diameters? To the best of my knowledge 68-69 390 air cleaners were the same diameter as a 351W at 17.5" approx. 428 CJs and later Boss 302s were 16.5s and I believe a 351W ram air air cleaner was also 16.5 necessitating a unique 351W ram air snorkel. So with the different diameters mean the screw hole locations to mount the snorkels are different as are the width of the base piece of the snorkel that mounts to the air cleaner base
The statement has been made "used AMC parts" is a little misleading. The company that made these heat ducts, made them for Ford and American Motors.
^^^ yes - definitely a more accurate way to say that.
While very similar, for some reason the snorkels that Ford purchased from this vendor are slightly different than what AMC purchased and what Shelby used on the G snorkels is the AMC style part. It is a sure tell tale of a cobbled together repro when the Ford style section is used.
I had not heard that an AMC style part was also used on the KR snorkels until I read Ed's post - so that is very interesting.
- Phillip
Quote from: propayne on February 11, 2024, 02:15:17 PM
^^^ yes - definitely a more accurate way to say that.
While very similar, for some reason the snorkels that Ford purchased from this vendor are slightly different than what AMC purchased and what Shelby used on the G snorkels is the AMC style part. It is a sure tell tale of a cobbled together repro when the Ford style section is used.
I had not heard that an AMC style part was also used on the KR snorkels until I read Ed's post - so that is very interesting.
- Phillip
and I'm pretty sure from my prior response a KR snorkel will not bolt up to a factory 390 air cleaner base. Nor would a factory 390 snorkel bolt up to a 428 base. I own both 390 and 428 bases. Have modified 390 snorkels to work on a 428 base before(flipped the bend piece and welded up mounting holes and narrowed snorkel mounting base). I remember over 3 decades ago when George H was buying up SoWest snorkels and using the very end piece and having the unique other parts made up to make up all the high dollar snorkels. I remember seeing a LOT of them spot welds drill out waiting to be made into a repo snorkel at his house.
Correct gary back years ago we made many trips out west buying up ford air cleaner snorkels in old junk yards because they were rust free and the snorkel ends were used on several ford performance cars. I had an old junk yard directory book that i used on western junk yard trips. One western trip after a shelby nats show in utah me hank huisman (george h brother) randy sizemore rented a van and after a few days had so many parts we had to stop at ups and ship snorkles etc home because our van was full as this was before the big crush when all junk yards were crushing these old cars truck etc. The ford snorkle ends depended on what carb was used performance holleys vs ford carbs as the air cleaner base was flat 2 piece on holley with a closer diameter snorkle screw end holes 16 1/4''. vs 17'' air cleaner bases both being difference design except for the 390 gt as it was difference than the regular ford 390.
Quote from: Special Ed on February 12, 2024, 12:21:17 AM
Correct gary back years ago we made many trips out west buying up ford air cleaner snorkels in old junk yards because they were rust free and the snorkel ends were used on several ford performance cars. I had an old junk yard directory book that i used on western junk yard trips. One western trip after a shelby nats show in utah me hank huisman (george h brother) randy sizemore rented a van and after a few days had so many parts we had to stop at ups and ship snorkles etc home because our van was full as this was before the big crush when all junk yards were crushing these old cars truck etc. The ford snorkle ends depended on what carb was used performance holleys vs ford carbs as the air cleaner base was flat 2 piece on holley with a closer diameter snorkle screw end holes 16 1/4''. vs 17'' air cleaner bases both being difference design except for the 390 gt as it was difference than the regular ford 390.
Thanks. I remember seeing a MM article with one of you (think it was Hank ) were at a yard and found a boss 302(?) air cleaner setup. Deal of the day? Back when I first met George around 1986 he was reproducing many parts(OEM parts) and I can't remember if Hank had already moved to Florida or not. I know that back in the day in Hemmings George would sell out of Mi and Hank out of Florida. I alos remember stopping by George's house and he and his friend Terry were installing a light bar(the first) in his ASC Mustang and that business took off (Classic Design Concepts). Man, have the years flown by....I've bought snorkels, smog systems heat shields and S tubes off of George back in the 80s and 90s for CJ cars I was restoring. I also wonder what happened to Larry Cook. He worked at Fitzsimmons that did smog tubes for Ford and made up repo B9 smog tubes(had the original bucks to go off of) back in the 80s as he had a beautiful 69 Boss 9.
Hank moved to florida back in the 90s when his parents moved from MI. and mike ulrey soon followed. Hank started paridize automotive and bought george out of the MaClaran parts business they had. I was with hank when he found the boss 302 shaker base and snorkle for $35 bucks and later sold it for $3500bucks. We were at desert valley junkyard in AZ after a BJ auction trip and the yard had cleaned out an old skool bus full of air cleaners and had them hanging on racks when we found it as that was the biggest yard with 6000 or so old cars before the big car crush happened. Larrry Cook also moved to FL and is still making parts.
Quote from: Special Ed on February 12, 2024, 07:59:24 AM
Hank moved to florida back in the 90s when his parents moved from MI. and mike ulrey soon followed. Hank started paridize automotive and bought george out of the MaClaran parts business they had. I was with hank when he found the boss 302 shaker base and snorkle for $35 bucks and later sold it for $3500bucks. We were at desert valley junkyard in AZ after a BJ auction trip and the yard had cleaned out an old skool bus full of air cleaners and had them hanging on racks when we found it as that was the biggest yard with 6000 or so old cars before the big car crush happened. Larrry Cook also moved to FL and is still making parts.
Thanks for the info. I see Hank from time to time and lately it is usually at MCACN. He is a quiet guy. I knew he had McClaren stuff but didn't know his history until I saw the You-Tube video. I remember back then George and Hank both worked for ASC and I remember getting some NOS quarters from George and we went to a 3 car garage in Northville and it was filled with T-tops in racks IIRC. I now live a mile from that old stash garage he had. Does Larry still have that Maroon 69 B9? That was quite the car back then. Had it stashed in a climate room sideways from a rear extension of his garage. I think it was in Ferndale Mi.