Buried in the Senate's version of the new "Infrastructure" bill is a pilot program to test taxing drivers per mile driven.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_morningbrief/senate-infrastructure-bill-gives-feds-go-ahead-to-test-taxing-every-mile-americans-drive_3931837.html?utm_source=Morningbrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mb-2021-08-04&mktids=b6a2a99a7df96e04457e9cf9b140c334&est=vjq%2Fh1Sq7RfaX%2FF8ipgtp%2F7wmY4jpcQtSV4bNlyImEnbpd88rGSTXXKDOpqB
Of course it will NOT be called a new TAX. That might give people a negative feeling about this new... tax. They will be calling it "a national motor vehicle per-mile user fee." So it's not a new tax, it's a user fee. Now, don't you feel better?
Steve
Interesting, I think we call it different here. Almost all the roads have electronic TOLLS on them
can you spell "revenue enhancement"? ???
But - the decline of revenue from the federal fuel tax (and the total lack of payment toward "roads" by anyone driving an electric vehicle) is something that will eventually need to be addressed.
Here in NJ we've already "solved" the problem. The State "requires" a certain level of $$$ annual funding for "highways". The fuel tax is "adjusted" to meet the needed revenue. Oh yeah... that does mean that the fuel tax goes up-up-up-up... ::)
Here in Hawaii, the fuel taxes and car registrations were dedicated for decades towards transportation infrastructure needs. Then when the local government employee pension funds started to disappear, the transportation funds were directed to the State general funds. Now with EV toys that do not have to pay any gas taxes and are given special parking and registration discounts, the State is loving the Federal infrastructure bailout to fix everything we roll on. Bureaucratic political wisdom corrections for fudged accounting methods.
This current regime really wants to put the brakes on commerce don't they. Drive to a restaurant? Not tonight, dear. We've already used up too many miles this month, honey Go to a movie? Nope, too many miles used. How about shopping at a mall? Better not, we've already used up too many miles this month. They just don't get how economics work. They never have. It's all about feelings and not rational and intelligent choices. They are a disgusting lot, they are.
See when I see stuff like this, it just makes me wonder why old cars are increasing in value.
Things that make you go, "Hmmmmmmmm"
Are these cars really going up in value or are they doing so because of a few good men, Shelby men?
JUST SAYIN'
A road tax on a GAS vehicle is double dipping, I would think they could implement a Road Use Tax on ELECTRIC cars.
I am getting this eerie sensation that many of my trips in the future will be business related and therefore eligible for that 56 cents per mile deduction...(unless they of course eliminate that as well).
Of course how will they know how many miles you have driven? GPS transponders in your cars and trucks? How much more will Trucking cost? Will they audit your vehicle transponder by using your cell phone location?
Yes paranoid attitudes are my hobby.
John
Quote from: JohnSlack on August 04, 2021, 05:52:37 PM
Of course how will they know how many miles you have driven? GPS transponders in your cars and trucks? How much more will Trucking cost? Will they audit your vehicle transponder by using your cell phone location?
Yes paranoid attitudes are my hobby.
John
Also always wondered why they don't just monitor your speed using the in car systems as well as other devices and just send speeding tickets out in the mail like they do tolls. That would generate some revenue :o
Really hate to burst your bubble but I have a good friend that was a traffic engineer for F. D. O. T. and I asked him the same question, do they clock or can they clock the speed as you go through the toll?
His answer was YES, but then it comes down to can we clearly I. D. the driver?
Coming from Miami heading to North Central Florida (Don't recall the junction) . Speed limit is 70 MPH, in less than 1000 feet (maybe more but it does not seem like it) it goes to 35 MPH. On any given day you will find a motorized FHP right at and on the drive through toll.
Imagine this 20 cars going 70 MPH all of a sudden the lead cars does a massive stop ( thinking that the speed limit would stay consistent) and the others scatter through the other lanes. Not fun
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 04, 2021, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: JohnSlack on August 04, 2021, 05:52:37 PM
Of course how will they know how many miles you have driven? GPS transponders in your cars and trucks? How much more will Trucking cost? Will they audit your vehicle transponder by using your cell phone location?
Yes paranoid attitudes are my hobby.
John
Also always wondered why they don't just monitor your speed using the in car systems as well as other devices and just send speeding tickets out in the mail like they do tolls. That would generate some revenue :o
Quote from: J_Speegle on August 04, 2021, 06:01:25 PMAlso always wondered why they don't just monitor your speed using the in car systems as well as other devices and just send speeding tickets out in the mail like they do tolls. That would generate some revenue :o
The ACLU has for years argued against OBDIII. That would do exactly that. It could monitor your driving style and mail tickets to the RO. If your emissions was out of whack they would send you a letter to get it fixed. If you didn't have it fixed within the given time frame they could shut your car off remotely.
The new infrastructure bill has a clause in it where all new cars/trucks within 3 years have a system in place to disable the car if your blood alcohol is over .08.
Electric cars pose a problem for them in that they do not pay the fuel tax which was designed to maintain the roads. They can't be seen as only adding a tax on electric cars to make up for the 75 cents or so that gas cars pay per gallon so they will add a new fee for all cars to pay to cover road use/repair. Of course they won't lower or drop the current fuel tax since they are already using that to pay for other things. They will also get the electric companies involved and require car chargers to be on a separate meter so they can add a KW charge for vehicles.
Quote from: FL SAAC on August 04, 2021, 07:47:16 PM
Really hate to burst your bubble but I have a good friend that was a traffic engineer for F. D. O. T. and I asked him the same question, do they clock or can they clock the speed as you go through the toll?
His answer was YES, but then it comes down to can we clearly I. D. the driver?
Coming from Miami heading to North Central Florida (Don't recall the junction) . Speed limit is 70 MPH, in less than 1000 feet (maybe more but it does not seem like it) it goes to 35 MPH. On any given day you will find a motorized FHP right at and on the drive through toll.
Imagine this 20 cars going 70 MPH all of a sudden the lead cars does a massive stop ( thinking that the speed limit would stay consistent) and the others scatter through the other lanes. Not fun
No bubbles here :) What I was describing would not just be at toll bridges or roads but a good place (for them) to start. No reason to stop anyone. Collect the plate number, take a picture of the driver and mail the check. Very similar to red light cameras though many of those have been disabled around the country still have gotten a few in other states and locations. Remember that they see driving as a privilege not a right
My Model A's are looking better and better... :) No onboard computers for them to monitor... 8)
TOB
Quote from: TOBKOB on August 04, 2021, 09:47:52 PM
My Model A's are looking better and better... :) No onboard computers for them to monitor... 8)
TOB
Soon your classic Shelby/Cobra will be your daily driver again after decades since they do not have any OBD systems or black boxes to monitor. Keep your classic cars and watch the values skyrocket!
Road sensors and cameras have their limits. The road sensors will fail quickly due our wonderful quality road maintenance.
Quote from: TOBKOB on August 04, 2021, 09:47:52 PM
My Model A's are looking better and better... :) No onboard computers for them to monitor... 8)
TOB
Your state will do a few things with old cars. Ban them all together by having a program where they must be updated to current safety/emissions standards, they could jack up the cost of registration to thousands citing the damage your 10 mpg car does or just refuse to license any car older than - insert arbitrary date here.
Remember they are .gov and their goal is to get you to obey.
All for one and one for all! If your a BILLIONAIRE you pay a flat rate of 10 percent, if you are on food stamps you give up 10 percent of your crumbs. It simplifies who gets bent over and who doesnt. NO ONE should escape taxation it is what floats all our boats. We dont like it, but we dont like even more, when some groups get penalized while others dont. Simple economics for a VERY complicated world!
Quote from: Don Johnston on August 04, 2021, 10:11:04 PM
The road sensors will fail quickly due our wonderful quality road maintenance.
That 100 yards will be in pristine condition. The OBDIII proposal used cell towers to monitor and transmit data.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on August 05, 2021, 12:17:57 PM
Quote from: TOBKOB on August 04, 2021, 09:47:52 PM
My Model A's are looking better and better... :) No onboard computers for them to monitor... 8)
TOB
Your state will do a few things with old cars. Ban them all together by having a program where they must be updated to current safety/emissions standards, they could jack up the cost of registration to thousands citing the damage your 10 mpg car does or just refuse to license any car older than - insert arbitrary date here.
Remember they are .gov and their goal is to get you to obey.
That may be in the future but so far GA is a fairly sensible state.I think most Georgians learned a lesson last election... :)
TOB
In light of the above, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that we could be taxed on the very Carbon Dioxide we exhale since it contributes to "Global Warming" as does the flatulance we expell. Everyone will be required to wear a "breathometer" and a "fartometer". Fortunately, by the time all that comes to pass, I'll hopefully be running God's incredible road course in Heaven!
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on August 06, 2021, 08:49:10 PM
In light of the above, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that we could be taxed on the very Carbon Dioxide we exhale since it contributes to "Global Warming" as does the flatulance we expell. Everyone will be required to wear a "breathometer" and a "fartometer". Fortunately, by the time all that comes to pass, I'll hopefully be running God's incredible road course in Heaven!
That would cause for major fundraising or our beloved politicians on all levels of government or relegated to one minute speeches and congressional chambers might be designated an environmental hazard should it happen.