Just purchased a 70 Shelby and need to replace some missing hardware.
Is there a good source for these?
(https://www.428cobrajet.org/forum/gallery/1801-111220112349.jpeg)
Well the headlight bucket hex sheet metal screw that is missing is your standard fare that is used on various parts of your car. At work so no access to a pic at this time. That bracket should be shimmed as that was the process and the shims taped together with regular masking tape(vanilla color) according to Ed Meyer. It asppears to me your bolt for hood tie down brackets isn't what was on my cars which should be the standard fare 1/4 with a washer bolt probably 7/8s long-or less. Gary
I suggest purchasing the AMK Products hardware kits for the headlight buckets, and whatever else you need. I did, and I think they provided the shims Gary mentioned. Yellow masking tape is not included in the kit. Also, don't forget to put a washer behind the bucket on the lower sheet metal bolt that goes through the headlight bucket into the radiator support. I forgot to add it, and now I don't want to take it all back apart to add it. The washer behind the bucket acts as a spacer on the bottom bolt and reduces the chances the bucket will crack.
Thanks, I placed the order. Wasn't sure if the AMK products pieces for this application were accurate, I appreciate the guidance.
Quote from: blackjade on December 11, 2020, 03:32:01 PM
Thanks, I placed the order. Wasn't sure if the AMK products pieces for this application were accurate, I appreciate the guidance.
I am sure that AMK will have the correct assemblyine type fasteners. All or some in the kit may not have the original markings on them however. As time goes by AMK has run out of many of the assemblyline makers marked fasteners.The replacements may be the correct type of fastener visually just a different maker. I do not know if this applies the headlight bucket kit or not because I have not had a reason to buy that particular kit. Unfortunately many kits have been effect by running out of fasteners with original makers mark.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 11, 2020, 07:54:20 PM
Quote from: blackjade on December 11, 2020, 03:32:01 PM
Thanks, I placed the order. Wasn't sure if the AMK products pieces for this application were accurate, I appreciate the guidance.
I am sure that AMK will have the correct assemblyine type fasteners. All or some in the kit may not have the original markings on them however. As time goes by AMK has run out of many of the assemblyline makers marked fasteners. The replacements may be the correct type of fastener visually just a different maker. I do not know if this applies the headlight bucket kit or not because I have not had a reason to buy that particular kit. Unfortunately many kits have been effect by running out of fasteners with original makers mark.
one reason why I spend the time to restore original fasteners, hinges, brake lines etc. Disregard any Chevy parts in the pic below. :D
Thanks —- I dmm on the same though no Chevy 'stuff' in my garage.
My first resto had a lot of amk and subsequent restorations had nearly 100% factory hardware.
First early Shelby for me so I am looking forward to the learning process and restoration!
Have fun with the restoration. I had to wait years to have my oem headlight buckets and front valance restored. Hopefully yours aren't cracked. Here's a photo of my headlight bucket and hardware.
Years ago when amk first started i sent all unique 69 shelby and boss 429 hardware to amk so he could identify it and source it as he had connection to detroit hardware vendors thanks to ( dave riley) and now that amk sells mopar and gm hardware he has over 500 hardware companies he can deal with. Amk gets hardware info from assembly manuals but specialty cars like b9s and shelbys there are no info in assembly line manuals for the unique hardware so u have to use examples taken off original cars. Problem is replating original hardware is u have to find non pitted hardware to replate as i have seen restorations using pitted hardware and that looks bad on a fresh concours resto.
Quote from: Special Ed on December 12, 2020, 10:23:20 AM
Years ago when amk first started i sent all unique 69 shelby and boss 429 hardware to amk so he could identify it and source it as he had connection to detroit hardware vendors thanks to ( dave riley) and now that amk sells mopar and gm hardware he has over 500 hardware companies he can deal with. Amk gets hardware info from assembly manuals but specialty cars like b9s and shelbys there are no info in assembly line manuals for the unique hardware so u have to use examples taken off original cars. Problem is replating original hardware is u have to find non pitted hardware to replate as i have seen restorations using pitted hardware and that looks bad on a fresh concours resto.
I media blast my hardware and the pitted stuff gets put to the side. I agree that there is nothing worse than pitted plated hardware. A few of my brake lines I'm not happy with pitting wise but decided to plate them anyways. Ed, early on Max didn't have the TALL shock tower cap nuts that came about in 1969 so I grabbed all the ones I could every year from an Indiana vendor who had 55 barrel drums of that old hardware from manufacturers. He would come to Mi ever year for the Ford Lincoln restorers club show and I'd clean him out of the tall nuts(never had a lot but had a lot of "little" quantities of many fasteners). Now I see NPD sells AMK TALL nuts.you can see one of them circled in my pic below in the box. The good thing about pooling parts in with a guy doing Chevy stuff is it is easy to separate which is which. I'll give my friend a pass on restoring hardware for his 70 Chevelle SS as he owns 4 Mustangs including a original paint 69 B9 and a 4K mile 69 B2. Gary
Ed has judged a few of my cars, and held me to the highest standards.
Got the stamp of approval and will do the same with the 500.
Quote from: blackjade on December 12, 2020, 07:03:52 PM
Ed has judged a few of my cars, and held me to the highest standards.
Got the stamp of approval and will do the same with the 500.
Here is my hardware. Ed looked at it back in 2003 and said "add the masking tape to the shims" so I assume the hardware that I restored was original to my car. Gary
Thank you !
Gary the center N bolt clip in your hood pin bracket should look like the other 2 clips as they were installed in the steel part of the headlight bucket area then the hood pin bracket was bolted in but your inner clip is split apart and u slid the hood pin bracket down between the clip. You should be able to remove hood pin bracket and the 3 clips stay in place on the metal and the hood pin bracket has oblong holes for adjustments and alignment. Also the 4 wood type screws that hold headlight buckets to rad support usually use a big flat washer with them to help support the bottom fiberglass and top metal tabs of the headlight buckets.
Quote from: Special Ed on December 27, 2020, 10:05:50 AM
Gary the center N bolt clip in your hood pin bracket should look like the other 2 clips as they were installed in the steel part of the headlight bucket area then the hood pin bracket was bolted in but your inner clip is split apart and u slid the hood pin bracket down between the clip. You should be able to remove hood pin bracket and the 3 clips stay in place on the metal and the hood pin bracket has oblong holes for adjustments and alignment. Also the 4 wood type screws that hold headlight buckets to rad support usually use a big flat washer with them to help support the bottom fiberglass and top metal tabs of the headlight buckets.
Ed, I believe that is how it is mounted. I'll take a pic with the "N" bolt off and post it when I get a chance. So the 4 sheet metal screws need a washer behind them? I don't recall ever having them originally but will put some on if it is the norm. What plating on the washers? Phos like the SMSs? Thanks as always with your eagle eyes. Gary
Phos thin washers look at reply #7 photo
I took these photos at SAAC36 at VIR in 2011. This car was entered in the survivor class. I don't think the headlight bucket hardware was ever touched or taken apart. Notice the 2 or 3 large washers at the lower sheet metal bolt behind the bucket, which space it out from the radiator support. I forgot to add these washers and wish I wouldn't have.
Quote from: 69 GT350 Vert on December 27, 2020, 05:20:30 PM
I took these photos at SAAC36 at VIR in 2011. This car was entered in the survivor class. I don't think the headlight bucket hardware was ever touched or taken apart. Notice the 2 or 3 large washers at the lower sheet metal bolt behind the bucket, which space it out from the radiator support. I forgot to add these washers and wish I wouldn't have.
Typically you see ether round or square . Sometimes you see both styles used as in this case but it is less typical. When I have seen the thick washers used they have had a crude slot cut into them as if they were made up quickly to replace the square ones for some reason. When the workers lowered the complete front clip on to the chassis the way it mated up to that particular car determined how many washers were needed in each position. Some used more and some less . I have seen some lower ones that didn't need a spacer at all. You can also tell if it should have one if none are present because of the material bending toward the rad support and or a crack in the fiberglass. ;)
Happy New Year to all! Ed, here is a pic of my fender area I took yesterday. I took the bolt off of the lower hood pin lock bracket to see the clip. It appears correct to me. I qalso added the phos washer. Is this all correct now? Thanks. Gary
Gary, the two sheet metal screws that hold the fender to the headlight bucket were there when the area was painted at Smith and so they should be painted too.
What was the masking tape purpose ?
Patrick
From my personal experience, the tape prevents dropping the multiple square spacers when installing the headlight buckets.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 01, 2021, 10:49:59 AM
Gary, the two sheet metal screws that hold the fender to the headlight bucket were there when the area was painted at Smith and so they should be painted too.
Same with the clip for the twist lock bracket.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 01, 2021, 01:03:57 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 01, 2021, 10:49:59 AM
Gary, the two sheet metal screws that hold the fender to the headlight bucket were there when the area was painted at Smith and so they should be painted too.
Same with the clip for the twist lock bracket.
got a pic with tape on the clips? Thanks. Also what would one expect to find under the stone guard overlap on that headlight bucket surface? no paint? primer? what color primer? Thanks. I got a pair of original headlight buckets taken off of June built #3052 that I took off in 1984 with original paint on them in my attic. Gary
Quote from: 69 GT350 Vert on January 01, 2021, 12:25:28 PM
From my personal experience, the tape prevents dropping the multiple square spacers when installing the headlight buckets.
+1 Ed educated me on that back in 2003. Gary
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 01, 2021, 02:44:54 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 01, 2021, 01:03:57 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 01, 2021, 10:49:59 AM
Gary, the two sheet metal screws that hold the fender to the headlight bucket were there when the area was painted at Smith and so they should be painted too.
Same with the clip for the twist lock bracket.
got a pic with tape on the clips? Thanks. Also what would one expect to find under the stone guard overlap on that headlight bucket surface? no paint? primer? what color primer? Thanks. I got a pair of original headlight buckets taken off of June built #3052 that I took off in 1984 with original paint on them in my attic. Gary
Given you quoted my post you misunderstood because I did not say anything about tape on clips . Read again. I did however talk about paint . Back side of the headlight buckets will have some degree of overspray from the body color paint process of the fenders on which they were attached and to a lessor degree the gray paint used in the grill area. Like other worker done painting processes you would have a range of what was typically seen but It would vary from one car to another depending on painter/painters and how the paint was applied.
Yes,Bob, re-read it and took it the wrong way earlier-thanks. what color should be on the headlight bucket under the stone guard overlap? Should body color be under the dark gray paint? there is in one of Pete's website pics on the orange car. Here are 2 pics of my original headlight bucket taken off #3052 in 1984. A hint of Grabber blue on the underside but no GB under the dark gray and dark gray appears to be on the area under where the stone guard overlaps and the pic is misleading as it all is the same shade and not 2 different shades my garage lights created on the bucket. Gary
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 01, 2021, 04:16:26 PM
Yes,Bob, re-read it and took it the wrong way earlier-thanks. what color should be on the headlight bucket under the stone guard overlap? Should body color be under the dark gray paint? there is in one of Pete's website pics on the orange car. Here are 2 pics of my original headlight bucket taken off #3052 in 1984. A hint of Grabber blue on the underside but no GB under the dark gray and dark gray appears to be on the area under where the stone guard overlaps and the pic is misleading as it all is the same shade and not 2 different shades my garage lights created on the bucket. Gary
Only the fiberglass parts were assembled together during the body color painting process. Then the other parts were added for the gray painting process.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 01, 2021, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 01, 2021, 04:16:26 PM
Yes,Bob, re-read it and took it the wrong way earlier-thanks. what color should be on the headlight bucket under the stone guard overlap? Should body color be under the dark gray paint? there is in one of Pete's website pics on the orange car. Here are 2 pics of my original headlight bucket taken off #3052 in 1984. A hint of Grabber blue on the underside but no GB under the dark gray and dark gray appears to be on the area under where the stone guard overlaps and the pic is misleading as it all is the same shade and not 2 different shades my garage lights created on the bucket. Gary
Only the fiberglass parts were assembled together during the body color painting process. Then the other parts were added for the gray painting process.
Bob, I see 4 pics in the link below that shows headlight buckets painted body color. I'd share the pics but am not sure if that is OK with Pete. Here is the link. Shows a blue and orange car where the headlight buckets are painted body color in the first 3 pics. My thoughts are the process had to change after these pics were taken because I had zero body color on my May 6 69 built Shelby or my June built Shelby that the above bucket came off of. No red or Grabber blue. http://www.thecoralsnake.com/1969Plantpics
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 02, 2021, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 01, 2021, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on January 01, 2021, 04:16:26 PM
Yes,Bob, re-read it and took it the wrong way earlier-thanks. what color should be on the headlight bucket under the stone guard overlap? Should body color be under the dark gray paint? there is in one of Pete's website pics on the orange car. Here are 2 pics of my original headlight bucket taken off #3052 in 1984. A hint of Grabber blue on the underside but no GB under the dark gray and dark gray appears to be on the area under where the stone guard overlaps and the pic is misleading as it all is the same shade and not 2 different shades my garage lights created on the bucket. Gary
Only the fiberglass parts were assembled together during the body color painting process. Then the other parts were added for the gray painting process.
Bob, I see 4 pics in the link below that shows headlight buckets painted body color. I'd share the pics but am not sure if that is OK with Pete. Here is the link. Shows a blue and orange car where the headlight buckets are painted body color in the first 3 pics. My thoughts are the process had to change after these pics were taken because I had zero body color on my May 6 69 built Shelby or my June built Shelby that the above bucket came off of. No red or Grabber blue. http://www.thecoralsnake.com/1969Plantpics
Gary, those pictures are typical of the process. From evidence I have seen that same process was done through the end of 69/70 Shelby production.The amount of paint applied in the area could vary from one car to the next depending on painter. The painters weren't necessarily trying to paint the buckets in the process but they got overspray from painting the fenders that they were attached to. The fog light bracket was added after the body paint was done. The fender edges were taped off to prevent overspray. The gray was sprayed over the headlight area covering any body colored paint on forward facing surfaces.
Bob, the headlight buckets I have as interesting in that they came off of a car never apart. The areas of the buckets tucked behind the front edge of the fender are dark argent with a consistent spray which would be impossible if the gray was sprayed after attaching to the fender. some slight overspray on the top of the bucket which appears to me to think they were painted off the car. The only grabber blue is overspray in the back of the bucket like it could have happened when painting the fenders with the buckets installed. Nowhere where the paint is scratched is there a hint of GB on the front side that got dark gray paint. Someday at a show I'll bring the buckets and let you inspect them. My opinion? These were painted first. Then installed and masked off. I was the 3rd owner of #3052-second owner owned from around 1973-1984. Painted it black and the car was never apart according to him(original paint under hood and trunk and door jambs and car partially in primer when I bought it). i had to slot the heads of the bolts to take off the front valance(rusted) as well as problems disassembling other front end parts due to rusted nuts/bolts and that was 1984. Gary