(https://sharedalbums.b-cdn.net/1d303441-c009-425f-9c9c-ae8bbcec5227.JPG?class=mediumSquare)
Great photo note the phosphate battery j bolt next to the silver upper rad hose clamp.
Laying across the upper radiator hose, appears to be a small metal vacuum line. Anyone know what that is?
Also, There is an oil breather cap that is off the rear passenger side valve cover, up at the front of the passenger valve cover. There also appears to be an open hose there. Part of the breather?
Quote from: Special Ed on November 27, 2023, 10:12:50 PM
Great photo note the phosphate battery j bolt next to the silver upper rad hose clamp.
Ed that is not surprising given this is a later outboard headlight car.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 27, 2023, 11:44:38 PM
Quote from: Special Ed on November 27, 2023, 10:12:50 PM
Great photo note the phosphate battery j bolt next to the silver upper rad hose clamp.
Ed that is not surprising given this is a later outboard headlight car.
It is in vintage pictures of very early production cars that the J bolts appear to be bright zinc .
Quote from: rhjanes on November 27, 2023, 11:31:22 PM
Laying across the upper radiator hose, appears to be a small metal vacuum line. Anyone know what that is?
Also, There is an oil breather cap that is off the rear passenger side valve cover, up at the front of the passenger valve cover. There also appears to be an open hose there. Part of the breather?
The GT500 with thermactor used a special oil filler tube that had a sideways extended nipple. A check valve was sandwiched between two hoses that connected to the air cleaner assembly. The short open end of the hose is what you see in the picture . The check valve and other short hose would most likely still be connected to the air cleaner assembly that is out of the picture
Quote from: rhjanes on November 27, 2023, 11:31:22 PM
Laying across the upper radiator hose, appears to be a small metal vacuum line. Anyone know what that is?
That is the vacuum line for the Thermactor valve located basically directly below it in the picture. Tube screws into the threads into its main body of the valve with a brass fitting
Quote from: rhjanes on November 27, 2023, 11:31:22 PMAlso, There is an oil breather cap that is off the rear passenger side valve cover, up at the front of the passenger valve cover. There also appears to be an open hose there. Part of the breather?
Not sure where your indicating. No oil breather car on the passenger side valve cover on these cars
At the rear of the passenger side valve cover I see the PCV hose attached to the PCV and the heater hose bend up under the export brace and then down/rearward to the heater core nipple. There is another hose just forward of those two that is the passenger side Thermator hose that attaches to the Thermactor manifold for the passenger side head.
Maybe your seeing the short section of hose that attaches to the breather tube inserted in the front of the intake manifold with the chrome breather cap in place. That hose would have attached to (on this model with the options it has) to a check valve and another short hose that would connect to an elbow on the base of the air cleaner
Guess Bob wrote less and got his message posted first :)
To make up for being second here are some pictures to better illustrate. Looks like someone in the picture in the original post disconnected the vacuum flex hose and either bent the tube on purpose or leaned on it when doing something else ::)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/6-281123002956-199791841.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/6-281123003146-199801322.jpeg)
Couple of other pictures of air cleaner bottoms and tops
Roy
amazing !
How many used the "Shelby" and not the "Cobra" valve covers?
Thank you to Bob and J for their willingness to share their knowledge!
I don't think I've seen a 1967 GT500 with the Thermactor in person.
The Concourse photo's are great.
Quote from: mgreene on November 28, 2023, 08:27:16 AM
How many used the "Shelby" and not the "Cobra" valve covers?
The article that the picture is associated with is about installing the Shelby valve covers . The Shelby valve covers were a over the counter aftermarket item that did not come on regular production cars.The 67 GT 500 came with Cobra LeMans (all in one line )wording from the factory.
Without looking at my notes I think it was a vintage issue of Popular Mechanic or Popular Science that the article was in.
I think it was Popular Hot Rodding. Published between 1962 and 2014, part of the Motor Trend group. Best known for their "Project X" '57 Chevy build series.
Quote from: Bill Collins on November 28, 2023, 11:08:26 AM
I think it was Popular Hot Rodding. Published between 1962 and 2014, part of the Motor Trend group. Best known for their "Project X" '57 Chevy build series.
+1 That is where I I found it when I scanned the same picture
Bob, interesting observation about the picture being about valve cover! Thought it looked like spark plug removal/install as there are a lot of combinations of tools on the fender. Remember such a feat and always crack one or two which lead me to always by ten!
Also, the valve covers are different than what my car came with and had a breather cap not a cap as in the picture. Just an observation!
Quote from: 6s2055 on November 29, 2023, 11:51:11 AM
Also, the valve covers are different than what my car came with and had a breather cap not a cap as in the picture. Just an observation!
Reread reply #11 . Shelby valve covers are aftermarket additions on that magazine car.
Thank you Bob! I missed that. Aging is really rapidly taking over my memory!
Thank you Bob! I missed that! Aging is really taking a major toll with my mine!
Quote from: Bill Collins on November 28, 2023, 11:08:26 AM
I think it was Popular Hot Rodding. Published between 1962 and 2014, part of the Motor Trend group. Best known for their "Project X" '57 Chevy build series.
Hi Bill,
Yes, that was Popular Hot Rodding. A formerly excellent technical car mag (sort of combining Hot Rod & Car Craft's editorial breadth) that ended up in the soup-kitchen-mess of leftover stuff that spilled on the floor during too many publishing company sales/mergers.
PHR was never affiliated with Petersen, but got mixed-in with the Motor Trend Group (about three more company takeovers after Bob Petersen sold everything in 1996) in its last year or so, and was dead by 2014...a shadow of its former self.
PHR was originally the flagship of Argus Publishers Corp, a much smaller magazine company than Petersen (located in West L.A. about 6 miles from Petersen) that also published Super Chevy, Off-Road, VW & Porsche (eventually became European Car), drag racing specials, Motorcade (a new-car quarterly), Guide to Muscle Cars, Fabulous Mustangs, and others.
Company owners Don Werner and Gordon Behn were former Petersen guys. Werner was editor of Motor Trend (circa 1959) and Behn was in the Distribution (newsstand and subscription) dept. They decided to compete with Petersen and opened their own company (Argus) in 1962.
The young guy in this photo was the editor of PHR at the time, George Elliott. He had advanced to Exec V.P. when I started there in '81 (George hired me!) He's a great guy, fun-to-work-for, very knowledgeable, and a natural race driver (cars and motorcycles.)
I worked at PHR from 1982-87, before Carroll asked me to come to work for him, and thus also before I was at Petersen in the '90s-early 2000s. (Car Craft & Motor Trend.)
George and I are still friends, and I talked with him a couple of months ago. He's 80-ish and still loves fast machines. If anyone has a specific question to ask him about that Shelby article, I can pass it along.
Van
Addendum:
It's possible that photo wasn't so much part of a specific technical story, as it was to showcase the 428 P.I. I've been in many meetings where we were trying to figure out a snappy lead photo for the cover, or an article.
The answer: When you have a car with a visually-sexy engine, pull off the hood to get a good look at it. Shoot the pix vertically so it fills the entire page. Then have it lead-off a special engine building section, or an article on how-to jet dual-carbs for street and strip.
Also, keep in mind that the 1960s-era hot rodding magazines liked to test cars not just as stock, but after simple tuning tricks had been done. The goal was to report on the potential of the car as a bracket racer, or (more likely) a street racer. And, the performance gains of aftermarket parts.
The staff would regularly take drag slicks, carb parts, multiple sets of spark plugs, tool boxes and an air tank to the track, to test and tweak that same day. They'd make runs with and without the air cleaner, try different tire pressures, unbolt the front sway bar, and even run with uncorked exhaust if it was a bolt-together system and they could get to it.
As a result, this particular color photo is doing exactly what was intended: Grab your attention. Whether it be on the newsstand that month, or 55+ years later on a Shelby forum.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on November 29, 2023, 03:34:30 PM
Quote from: Bill Collins on November 28, 2023, 11:08:26 AM
I think it was Popular Hot Rodding. Published between 1962 and 2014, part of the Motor Trend group. Best known for their "Project X" '57 Chevy build series.
Hi Bill,
Yes, that was Popular Hot Rodding. A formerly excellent technical car mag (sort of combining Hot Rod & Car Craft's editorial breadth) that ended up in the soup-kitchen-mess of leftover stuff that spilled on the floor during too many publishing company sales/mergers.
PHR was never affiliated with Petersen, but got mixed-in with the Motor Trend Group (about three more company takeovers after Bob Petersen sold everything in 1996) in its last year or so, and was dead by 2014...a shadow of its former self.
PHR was originally the flagship of Argus Publishers Corp, a much smaller magazine company than Petersen (located in West L.A. about 6 miles from Petersen) that also published Super Chevy, Off-Road, VW & Porsche (eventually became European Car), drag racing specials, Motorcade (a new-car quarterly), Guide to Muscle Cars, Fabulous Mustangs, and others.
Company owners Don Werner and Gordon Behn were former Petersen guys. Werner was editor of Motor Trend (circa 1959) and Behn was in the Distribution (newsstand and subscription) dept. They decided to compete with Petersen and opened their own company (Argus) in 1962.
The young guy in this photo was the editor of PHR at the time, George Elliott. He had advanced to Exec V.P. when I started there in '81 (George hired me!) He's a great guy, fun-to-work-for, very knowledgeable, and a natural race driver (cars and motorcycles.)
I worked at PHR from 1982-87, before Carroll asked me to come to work for him, and thus also before I was at Petersen in the '90s-early 2000s. (Car Craft & Motor Trend.)
George and I are still friends, and I talked with him a couple of months ago. He's 80-ish and still loves fast machines. If anyone has a specific question to ask him about that Shelby article, I can pass it along.
Van
Side-Oilers,
My magazine has
this caption on page 60, explaining the period detail shot on page 61 that is being discussed in this thread:
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/52-291123164004.jpeg)
Quote from: SFM66H on November 29, 2023, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: Side-Oilers on November 29, 2023, 03:34:30 PM
Quote from: Bill Collins on November 28, 2023, 11:08:26 AM
I think it was Popular Hot Rodding. Published between 1962 and 2014, part of the Motor Trend group. Best known for their "Project X" '57 Chevy build series.
Hi Bill,
Yes, that was Popular Hot Rodding. A formerly excellent technical car mag (sort of combining Hot Rod & Car Craft's editorial breadth) that ended up in the soup-kitchen-mess of leftover stuff that spilled on the floor during too many publishing company sales/mergers.
PHR was never affiliated with Petersen, but got mixed-in with the Motor Trend Group (about three more company takeovers after Bob Petersen sold everything in 1996) in its last year or so, and was dead by 2014...a shadow of its former self.
PHR was originally the flagship of Argus Publishers Corp, a much smaller magazine company than Petersen (located in West L.A. about 6 miles from Petersen) that also published Super Chevy, Off-Road, VW & Porsche (eventually became European Car), drag racing specials, Motorcade (a new-car quarterly), Guide to Muscle Cars, Fabulous Mustangs, and others.
Company owners Don Werner and Gordon Behn were former Petersen guys. Werner was editor of Motor Trend (circa 1959) and Behn was in the Distribution (newsstand and subscription) dept. They decided to compete with Petersen and opened their own company (Argus) in 1962.
The young guy in this photo was the editor of PHR at the time, George Elliott. He had advanced to Exec V.P. when I started there in '81 (George hired me!) He's a great guy, fun-to-work-for, very knowledgeable, and a natural race driver (cars and motorcycles.)
I worked at PHR from 1982-87, before Carroll asked me to come to work for him, and thus also before I was at Petersen in the '90s-early 2000s. (Car Craft & Motor Trend.)
George and I are still friends, and I talked with him a couple of months ago. He's 80-ish and still loves fast machines. If anyone has a specific question to ask him about that Shelby article, I can pass it along.
Van
Side-Oilers,
My magazine has this caption on page 60, explaining the period detail shot on page 61 that is being discussed in this thread:
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/52-291123164004.jpeg)
The guy working on the Shelby in the period picture has the name George Elliott on his shirt, albeit not fully legible.
That definitely is not Lee Kelley. I worked for him too. He died a few years ago.
That's George Elliott in the photo, wearing that shirt.
Wasn't George Elliott the guy who started Project X?
Quote from: Side-Oilers on November 29, 2023, 06:27:39 PM
That definitely is not Lee Kelley. I worked for him too. He died a few years ago.
That's George Elliott in the photo, wearing that shirt.
Okay - Thanks for the clarification!
Quote from: CSX4781 on November 29, 2023, 08:44:45 PM
Wasn't George Elliott the guy who started Project X?
Yes, he was. I just reminisced with him on the phone about how that project got started. It was around 1965 and they wanted to do an affordable project car. Arch-rival Hot Rod would do the occasional mega-dollar high end project, but PHR's readers were more into stuff they could build themselves. George saw the '57 Chevy with a for sale sign on it, as he drove past it on some street in the San Fernando Valley. He bought it for something like $350.
That began the multi-year series of build-up articles, which then carried forward (after long jumps in time) to the era I was there, and until they ruined it by converting it to full EV for display at SEMA about 6-8 years ago. Apparently, Chevy did (or paid for) a lot of the work, I guess trying to make EVs seem cool. Uh...
I have heard that it's been put back to proper Chevy V8 carbon-propulsion.
I think that when George retired from Argus Publishers, after something like 35 years of helping build the company from one magazine into a pretty powerful independent publisher & producer of car events & TV shows, he should've been given Project X. But, the tight-wad owners couldn't see past the dollar signs. Sad.
I hope whoever has it, fully appreciates its long and unique history. Gotta say, to drive it on the street, the couple of times I did to car events, when it was still a very famous icon of hot rodding, was pretty bitchin'.
Never got it to do a wheelstand, though. That was the earlier PHR crew.
While this subject is open, I have a few questions.
1) Is that oil filler cap what is expected on all '67 GT500's or do they vary?
2) The Cobra Lemans driver's side valve cover is machined for clearance to the master brake cylinder for clearance. Doesn't the CS Shelby cover need that also?
3) Does the heater hose routing vary according to emissions or non-emission GT500 applications? Where would you expect to see it on a non-emissions car?
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 30, 2023, 07:04:50 AM
While this subject is open, I have a few questions.
1) Is that oil filler cap what is expected on all '67 GT500's or do they vary?
2) The Cobra Lemans driver's side valve cover is machined for clearance to the master brake cylinder for clearance. Doesn't the CS Shelby cover need that also?
3) Does the heater hose routing vary according to emissions or non-emission GT500 applications? Where would you expect to see it on a non-emissions car?
Which cap are you asking about? The scalloped, "cookie cutter" cap on the drivers side valve cover was only used on the closed crankcase emissions/thermactor GT 500's(and '67 427 Fairlanes/Comets/Galaxies). They could be Autolite stamped or no script un-stamped.
The chrome, Autolite stamped cap on the intake fill tube in the first picture at the beginning of this thread, is typically the style expected for a later car. The earlier cars used the same style/shape cap that were stamped with the FoMoCo in an oval from my understanding. Others will know approximately when the phasing in occurred for the Autolite caps. I was also told that not all of them were chrome, and black painted variations of each type script cap were used sparingly throughout production. Again, maybe someone has a more definitive time frame of usage.
Something I've been wondering about is did some of the closed emission/thermactor GT500's use the oil fill tube cap and spark arrestor system pictured below if the regular, straight oil fill tube was used instead of the C4AZ-6763-A curved fill tube with the nipple on the side that Jeff posted a picture of. If so, then that opens up another whole batch of closed crankcase emission caps, scripts, finishes, shapes/sizes.
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 30, 2023, 09:11:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 30, 2023, 07:04:50 AM
While this subject is open, I have a few questions.
1) Is that oil filler cap what is expected on all '67 GT500's or do they vary?
2) The Cobra Lemans driver's side valve cover is machined for clearance to the master brake cylinder for clearance. Doesn't the CS Shelby cover need that also?
3) Does the heater hose routing vary according to emissions or non-emission GT500 applications? Where would you expect to see it on a non-emissions car?
Which cap are you asking about? The scalloped, "cookie cutter" cap on the drivers side valve cover was only used on the closed crankcase emissions/thermactor GT 500's(and '67 427 Fairlanes/Comets). They could be Autolite stamped or no script un-stamped.
The chrome, Autolite stamped cap on the intake fill tube is typically the style expected for a later car. The earlier cars used the same style/shape cap that were stamped with the FoMoCo in an oval from my understanding. Others will know approximately when the phasing in occurred for the Autolite caps. I was also told that not all of them were chrome, and black painted variations of each type script cap were used sparingly throughout production. Again, maybe someone has a more definitive time frame of usage.
The cookie cutter is the one that caught my attention and curiosity.
My 67 500, 3074, is a non-emissions 4 speed so if you are correct, that isn't what should have been on the car as built anyway.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 30, 2023, 09:31:22 AM
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 30, 2023, 09:11:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 30, 2023, 07:04:50 AM
While this subject is open, I have a few questions.
1) Is that oil filler cap what is expected on all '67 GT500's or do they vary?
2) The Cobra Lemans driver's side valve cover is machined for clearance to the master brake cylinder for clearance. Doesn't the CS Shelby cover need that also?
3) Does the heater hose routing vary according to emissions or non-emission GT500 applications? Where would you expect to see it on a non-emissions car?
Which cap are you asking about? The scalloped, "cookie cutter" cap on the drivers side valve cover was only used on the closed crankcase emissions/thermactor GT 500's(and '67 427 Fairlanes/Comets). They could be Autolite stamped or no script un-stamped.
The chrome, Autolite stamped cap on the intake fill tube is typically the style expected for a later car. The earlier cars used the same style/shape cap that were stamped with the FoMoCo in an oval from my understanding. Others will know approximately when the phasing in occurred for the Autolite caps. I was also told that not all of them were chrome, and black painted variations of each type script cap were used sparingly throughout production. Again, maybe someone has a more definitive time frame of usage.
The cookie cutter is the one that caught my attention and curiosity.
My 67 500, 3074, is a non-emissions 4 speed so if you are correct, that isn't what should have been on the car as built anyway.
Your open emissions driver side cap should be this style of twist on and probably Autolite stamped instead of FoMoCo in a box. Again, I've been told chrome and black were intermixed used. The push on cap in the picture is for reference of size between the oil fill tube cap (smaller) and valve cover cap.
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 30, 2023, 09:11:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 30, 2023, 07:04:50 AM
While this subject is open, I have a few questions.
1) Is that oil filler cap what is expected on all '67 GT500's or do they vary?
2) The Cobra Lemans driver's side valve cover is machined for clearance to the master brake cylinder for clearance. Doesn't the CS Shelby cover need that also?
3) Does the heater hose routing vary according to emissions or non-emission GT500 applications? Where would you expect to see it on a non-emissions car?
Which cap are you asking about? The scalloped, "cookie cutter" cap on the drivers side valve cover was only used on the closed crankcase emissions/thermactor GT 500's(and '67 427 Fairlanes/Comets). They could be Autolite stamped or no script un-stamped.
The chrome, Autolite stamped cap on the intake fill tube in the first picture at the beginning of this thread, is typically the style expected for a later car. The earlier cars used the same style/shape cap that were stamped with the FoMoCo in an oval from my understanding. Others will know approximately when the phasing in occurred for the Autolite caps. I was also told that not all of them were chrome, and black painted variations of each type script cap were used sparingly throughout production. Again, maybe someone has a more definitive time frame of usage.
Something I've been wondering about is did some of the closed emission/thermactor GT500's use the oil fill tube cap and spark arrestor system pictured below if the regular, straight oil fill tube was used instead of the C4AZ-6763-A curved fill tube with the nipple on the side that Jeff posted a picture of. If so, then that opens up another whole batch of closed crankcase emission caps, scripts, finishes, shapes/sizes.
The closed emission "cookie cutter" cap first came without Autolite marked which is most correct (and hardest to find)for this application. The Autolite marked version was used on much later production cars. The smaller push on cap used on the oil fill tube came with the FORD in script in the oval, FOMOCO in the rectangle or on mid to later production cars AUTOLITE. As stated although a anomaly some GT500's came with black painted caps probably because of supply problems . The chrome cap is most correct as it is what the engine option was supposed to get along with the chrome dipstick and radiator cap. The special C4AZ-6763-A emission tube with the nipple on the side was overwhelming the most used filler neck used on thermactor cars . Some thermactor 67 GT500 used the standard straight tube but only for a brief time and only on the earliest of 67 GT500 production cars.
Thanks Bob, for clarification on the oil fill tube usage. The two pictures I posted in reply #29 are of car #590 (green) and #620 (blue) for reference. Not sure if that constitutes them as being some of the earliest, but they are both pretty early.
Chris
What is the part number for the "cookie cutter cap"? I can't find that? Was one a service part?
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 30, 2023, 11:56:54 AM
What is the part number for the "cookie cutter cap"? I can't find that? Was one a service part?
C7AZ-6766-A (engineering number C5AE-6766-K)
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 30, 2023, 10:51:47 AM
Thanks Bob, for clarification on the oil fill tube usage. The two pictures I posted in reply #29 are of car #590 (green) and #620 (blue) for reference. Not sure if that constitutes them as being some of the earliest, but they are both pretty early.
Chris
Of course pictures of restored cars although well done can not be taken as stand alone documentation . Especially when showing out of the ordinary usage.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 30, 2023, 12:54:06 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 30, 2023, 10:51:47 AM
Thanks Bob, for clarification on the oil fill tube usage. The two pictures I posted in reply #29 are of car #590 (green) and #620 (blue) for reference. Not sure if that constitutes them as being some of the earliest, but they are both pretty early.
Chris
Of course pictures of restored cars although well done can not be taken as stand alone documentation . Especially when showing out of the ordinary usage.
[/color]
Exactly.
I'm confused. My '67 GT500 (#0962) had a breather cap on the valve cover and had a thermal smog set up. Somewhere in tha archive there is a picture of the engine compartment.
Quote from: 6s2055 on December 01, 2023, 11:15:50 AM
I'm confused. My '67 GT500 (#0962) had a breather cap on the valve cover and had a thermal smog set up. Somewhere in tha archive there is a picture of the engine compartment.
The emission cap was typical on a thermactor equipped car . They are hard to find. A breather cap on the valve cover was for non emission cars. A breather cap on a valve cover of a emission car could happen by factory mistake or past owner substitution. One is more likely then the other . In concours for example a out of the ordinary occurrence like that would require reasonable proof for that specific car . Just because one car has a mistake doesn't mean it is historically proper for every car to be presented with the same mistake .
Thank you Bob. So most likely the breather cap on 0962 was an error. The engine compartment picture I have is dated June '67 about a month or so after i bought it. Too many memories @80!
Quote from: 6s2055 on December 01, 2023, 11:37:29 AM
Thank you Bob. So most likely the breather cap on 0962 was an error. The engine compartment picture I have is dated June '67 about a month or so after i bought it. Too many memories @80!
Error ? Yes apparently it is since the crankcase fumes were meant to be contained under the valve cover with a closed off cap so that the fumes could instead be routed and pumped into the exhaust to be burned off. A open emission cap lets the fumes escape to the atmosphere compromising the effectiveness of the thermactor system.Sometimes things happened by happenstance that are different from the way they were meant to be.
Quote from: 6s2055 on December 01, 2023, 11:15:50 AM
I'm confused. My '67 GT500 (#0962) had a breather cap on the valve cover and had a thermal smog set up. Somewhere in tha archive there is a picture of the engine compartment.
These the ones your thinking of?
Pictures developed/printed June 1967
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/6-011223181755-19993894.jpeg)
Would guess that a fair number of us have seen this picture also from a period magazine
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/19/6-011223182427-199941297.jpeg)
Jeff, the colored pictures are the ones! Took those in my parents garage! Interesting thing was I decided to take all the smog off and put plugs in the holes! Took almost 2-3 hours. When done fired it up drove a block and then it just stopped! Didn't know you couldn't just disconnect without retiming.Was at the age...22...where I thought I knew everything! Put it all back and never tried that again! About 6 months later I bought CSX2192. Had both till late '69. Who would have know the future value as they were every day drivers....not the Cobra in the rain though....it leaked!