Who can give me some more infos on this one? I know they are rare and for 429 SCJ and Nascar but never had time to do more research on this one. I have it here since 15 years now.
They didn't use 429 SCJ engines in Nascar. More than likely aimed at drag racing.
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on March 13, 2024, 04:12:01 AM
They didn't ....................
Are you sure about that! ???
Scott.
429 NASCAR? The ad shows a "normal" street 429 - but as you can see in the video a BOSS 429 was under the hood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4xkygPzOsxU
Quote from: pbf777 on March 13, 2024, 11:24:56 AM
Quote from: TA Coupe on March 13, 2024, 04:12:01 AM
They didn't ....................
Are you sure about that! ???
Scott.
If they did I've never seen or heard about it but I'm no expert. Maybe Doc will chime in?
Roy
I believe the "canted-valve" head version (vs. "Crescant" or "Hemi" BOSS 429) was introduced into the mix in maybe '71 or '72 but was put out to pasture permanently with NASCARs' 358 cubic inch rule change in '74, though I think most teams were already utilizing the 351C anyway. :)
Scott.
For real FoMoCo racing the NASCAR engine of choice for the Superspeedways was the BOSS 429. The short track engine remained the Tunnel port 427. Roy is correct there may have been a low buck privateer that ran the 429 SCJ, however my guess is that the Holman Moody SK intake was in the pipeline in case the France family outlawed the BOSS 429.
John
Technically, Ford experimented with the 'wedge' 385 series, and with a 400 based engine. Both, were turds.
I think the problem for the Ford teams was that the 427 was not going to be permitted in NASCAR competition for much longer as it was out of production as far as "in chassis fitment" by the O.E.M. and Ford was moving away from the FE series anyway, and as stated the BOSS 429 though good on the long tracks wasn't so good otherwise, the rules still stipulated a maximum of 430 cubic inches so it was thought that something was needed in this capacity range; hence the development effort put forth on the canted-valve 385 series engine.
But just as things got started, by 1970/71, NASCAR enacted a handicap break at the 366 cubic inch size with the intention of forcing the teams to smaller cubic inch engines (slow the cars down) and this pretty much ended the canted-valve 385 engines' competitiveness (not so sure because it was a "Turd"! ::)). And with Bud Moore moving over from Trans-Am racing to the NASCAR scene, he brought with him the experience gained with the BOSS 302's, but enlarged into the 335 series 351C (don't know about the 400's, but then there's a lot that I don't know about ???, heck, ask anybody!); this with the "Australian Block" Cleveland, perhaps (I wasn't there! :-\) punched out to the 366 rule limit.
And so was the end of the "Big-Block" racing era in NASCAR! :-X
Scott.
P.S. Besides, this also happen to please GM as they felt they might be more competitive in the "Small-Block" world! :o
Quote from: pbf777 on March 13, 2024, 08:04:48 PM......the "Australian Block" Cleveland,
The Aussie connection came about because Ford had sent all the Cleveland tooling down under. It ended up cheaper to have the stuff cast there and shipped here than to make new molds and cast them here. Development didn't stop they created the "pillow block" to get a little more water around the top of the cylinders. The A1, 2 & 3 heads were good but they got surpassed by the Yates heads. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6049-C3
Times like this is when I really miss Randy Gillis RIP aka gt350hr. He would have known.
~Earl J
Quote from: SFM5S000 on March 13, 2024, 09:36:57 PM
Times like this is when I really miss Randy Gillis RIP aka gt350hr. He would have known.
~Earl J
That is where I got the info on the 385 series and the 400 'turds' (Randy's exact words!) experiments. According to Randy, there were de-stroked 400s and some form of the 429 wedge versions also. Eventually, the 351 Cleveland was used.
Quote from: crossboss on March 13, 2024, 09:46:55 PM
Quote from: SFM5S000 on March 13, 2024, 09:36:57 PM
Times like this is when I really miss Randy Gillis RIP aka gt350hr. He would have known.
~Earl J
That is where I got the info on the 385 series and the 400 'turds' (Randy's exact words!) experiments. According to Randy, there were de-stroked 400s and some form of the 429 wedge versions also. Eventually, the 351 Cleveland was used.
Scott is absolutely correct Randy was not impressed with the other "experiments.
I would believe that a 400C engine block as the foundation for a NASCAR 358 or 366 cu. in. intention would have been a poor choice for a number of reasons. ;)
If one looks at the basic structure layout it just isn't efficient for the purpose; first, why would one want to have mounted in the chassis an engine that presents a 10.300" (+/-) deck height, with the added weight and creating a higher center of gravity effect when the 9.200" (+/-) deck height of the 351C was already proven to be adequate? ???
Then as engineered the main bearing bores are for a 3.00" main bearing application which although does provide greater support with the increased bearing surface area, and as designed with a 4" stroke originally, increases the crank-pin to main journal overlap area resulting in a stronger crankshaft, but I doubt a 4" stroke was an intention for a NASCAR 366/358 engine; and not to mention the bearing/crank surface speed relationship issue. :o
Now, I understand that there are "inserts" or "bearing spacers" that could be utilized to reduce the main bearing bores to something more acceptable, but these present problems of their own; and I realize that Ford Motor Co. could have just "tailored" the manufacturing process to provide for this also, but the further the engineering gets from the original design intention the greater the costs become; and this was still the era of things being at least 'somewhat' representative of production stuff. :)
And as far as striving for a larger capacity, as initially allotted for in the rules at the time, the 400C isn't really a "Big-Block" either, and wouldn't lend itself well to being blown-out to the 430 cu. in rule limit, not without major reworking! And why would one even tread down this path as there was already the canted-valve 385 series engine family to draw from which I think it could have been made very competitive, that is if it would have been given the development time and effort necessary to bring this to fruition; and had NASCAR not been in mood to move everyone to the smaller cubic inch engines. After all, this is basically just a 351C, but bigger! ;)
Scott.