Can anyone help ID the authenticity of this air cleaner assy.
On the Top , the O doesnt look wider than tall , and the R has a straight leg and not curved and I dont see the small circles on the back side , but it does seem quite old and I do see the frame around the cobra letters.
bottom appears to be legit in my opinion unless you see something that shouldnt be there?. at the very back of the oval (or at 12 o'clock) it is flat there without a lip if that means something?
The hose has fomoco and a C8ae number
Is it original 68 Shelby GT350? or something else?
or does it look like a repro??
thank you
more pics
and more pics
thanks
Quote from: brandosaac on September 29, 2021, 12:12:51 AM
Can anyone help ID the authenticity of this air cleaner assy.
On the Top , the O doesnt look wider than tall , and the R has a straight leg and not curved and I dont see the small circles on the back side , but it does seem quite old and I do see the frame around the cobra letters.
bottom appears to be legit in my opinion unless you see something that shouldnt be there?. at the very back of the oval (or at 12 o'clock) it is flat there without a lip if that means something?
The hose has fomoco and a C8ae number
Is it original 68 Shelby GT350? or something else?
or does it look like a repro??
thank you
Base is original 68 and top is unfortunately not anything that was used in 68 originally.Yes you need the curved leg R top that has the injection mold marks on the bottom side. The hose looks good for the application too.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 29, 2021, 01:06:01 AM
.........top is unfortunately not anything that was used in 68 originally.
[/quote]
But is the top a Ford O.E.M. component, if from another application? Looks sorta like it was installed on a dual carb set-up previously? :-\
Scott.
The slits inside the letter B are also not correct and the inside of the A at the top should be a triangle shape.
Original for comparison.
The COBRA air cleaner lid Brandosaac is asking about appears to be an original early '67 sand cast lid that at some point a hole was drilled in the center so it could be used on a single 4v application. The base is definitely an original '68 single 4v base.
Thank again for all the input ,
Yes, I was always under the assumption of ways to identify these is that it had to have ALL of the following... wider than tall "O" curvend leg on "R" faint box around the "COBRA" and the small circles on the rear,
But,
I did see an almost identicle top on Shelby part and restorations website.
They have an original eatly 67 GT500 air cleaner , claimed to be used on the first 600 cars on their website and the top looks identicle to what I have .
still curious , and want to advertise it correctly and get it to a welcoming home.
maybe anyone with an early 67 GT500 can check theirs as a comparison to help further . Maybe its a very early 67 casting
thanks so far, and thanks for any more info.
here is the link to the one I saw at shelby parts ...
https://shelbypartsstore.com/?product=1967-gt500-original-restored-oval-air-cleaner-assembly
Quote from: brandosaac on September 29, 2021, 12:04:25 PM
Thank again for all the input ,
Yes, I was always under the assumption of ways to identify these is that it had to have ALL of the following... wider than tall "O" curvend leg on "R" faint box around the "COBRA" and the small circles on the rear,
But,
I did see an almost identicle top on Shelby part and restorations website.
They have an original eatly 67 GT500 air cleaner , claimed to be used on the first 600 cars on their website and the top looks identicle to what I have .
still curious , and want to advertise it correctly and get it to a welcoming home.
maybe anyone with an early 67 GT500 can check theirs as a comparison to help further . Maybe its a very early 67 casting
thanks so far, and thanks for any more info.
here is the link to the one I saw at shelby parts ...
https://shelbypartsstore.com/?product=1967-gt500-original-restored-oval-air-cleaner-assembly
Although not a part of the original question of wether the top was for 68 or not to answer the different question of application is the top looks to be a original sand cast lid used on early 67 GT500's. The earliest sand cast lids were bare aluminum and later sand cast lids were black wrinkle like the later diecast lids. For others reading the 67 Shelby lids were designed not to come with a hole in the middle. It was designed for duel four applications which used the two outer holes The hole in the middle was a easy way to make the lid usable on a single four application starting in 1968. Besides the different styles of letters used on sand cast vs. diecast lids the 1968 lids were all diecast and not sand cast like the picture. Also a 67 lid has the outside edge sanded (not polished) like the top fins. The 68 on the other hand left the side painted and only the top side sanded. The incorrect hole in the center of this early 67 sand cast lid consequently diminishes the resale value of the lid. If you try and fix the hole and refinish the metal you will find that a faint outline of the hole will remain because of different content aluminum metals. It will never be 100% again. Don't misinterpret what I mean because it is still a valuable lid but just not as valuable as un damage lid that never had a hole drilled in it fixed or not. How much less is a difficult question because the hole witness line would be a non starter for many buyers concerned about originality. Others with lesser expectations may not be concerned because of lower price. They don't come up for sale often damaged or undamaged.
In your opinion what would the value be of an original early 67 top with a correct 2x4 bottom. I have 3 different 2x4 bottoms and I also have a 68 single four original bottom.
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 29, 2021, 05:52:16 PM
In your opinion what would the value be of an original early 67 top with a correct 2x4 bottom bottom. I have 3 different 2x4 bottoms and I also have a 68 single for original bottom.
Roy
Roy, with respect I have adopted the practice of not pricing other peoples parts. It is not worth the hassle or stress of someone getting mad if something is priced too low or too high. No good deed goes unpunished type of thing. Maybe others will volunteer.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 29, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: brandosaac on September 29, 2021, 12:04:25 PM
Thank again for all the input ,
Yes, I was always under the assumption of ways to identify these is that it had to have ALL of the following... wider than tall "O" curvend leg on "R" faint box around the "COBRA" and the small circles on the rear,
But,
I did see an almost identicle top on Shelby part and restorations website.
They have an original eatly 67 GT500 air cleaner , claimed to be used on the first 600 cars on their website and the top looks identicle to what I have .
still curious , and want to advertise it correctly and get it to a welcoming home.
maybe anyone with an early 67 GT500 can check theirs as a comparison to help further . Maybe its a very early 67 casting
thanks so far, and thanks for any more info.
here is the link to the one I saw at shelby parts ...
https://shelbypartsstore.com/?product=1967-gt500-original-restored-oval-air-cleaner-assembly
Although not a part of the original question of wether the top was for 68 or not to answer the different question of application is the top looks to be a original sand cast lid used on early 67 GT500's. The earliest sand cast lids were bare aluminum and later sand cast lids were black wrinkle like the later diecast lids. For others reading the 67 Shelby lids were designed not to come with a hole in the middle. It was designed for duel four applications which used the two outer holes The hole in the middle was a easy way to make the lid usable on a single four application starting in 1968. Besides the different styles of letters used on sand cast vs. diecast lids the 1968 lids were all diecast and not sand cast like the picture. Also a 67 lid has the outside edge sanded (not polished) like the top fins. The 68 on the other hand left the side painted and only the top side sanded. The incorrect hole in the center of this early 67 sand cast lid consequently diminishes the resale value of the lid. If you try and fix the hole and refinish the metal you will find that a faint outline of the hole will remain because of different content aluminum metals. It will never be 100% again. Don't misinterpret what I mean because it is still a valuable lid but just not as valuable as un damage lid that never had a hole drilled in it fixed or not. How much less is a difficult question because the hole witness line would be a non starter for many buyers concerned about originality. Others with lesser expectations may not be concerned because of lower price. They don't come up for sale often damaged or undamaged.
So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, the lid in discussion in the first pictures is an original, black crinkle finish, sand cast variation with no injection circles on the bottom side. The one pictured on the Shelby Restoration site is an original, earlier, natural finish, sand cast with the injection circles on the under side of the lid. I don't see any circles (little hard to tell) on the lid in discussion.
Also, is this a typical mark on some '68 style lids? Centered on bottom side and may say "Rockford".
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 29, 2021, 05:52:16 PM
In your opinion what would the value be of an original early 67 top with a correct 2x4 bottom bottom. I have 3 different 2x4 bottoms and I also have a 68 single for original bottom.
Roy
Roy,
Do any of your 2x4 bases have a squareish/rectangle pad where an emission tube is or could be installed? If so, I believe those are the Galaxie-Fairlane-Comet medium riser base.
Quote from: 430dragpack on September 29, 2021, 06:07:05 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 29, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: brandosaac on September 29, 2021, 12:04:25 PM
Thank again for all the input ,
Yes, I was always under the assumption of ways to identify these is that it had to have ALL of the following... wider than tall "O" curvend leg on "R" faint box around the "COBRA" and the small circles on the rear,
But,
I did see an almost identicle top on Shelby part and restorations website.
They have an original eatly 67 GT500 air cleaner , claimed to be used on the first 600 cars on their website and the top looks identicle to what I have .
still curious , and want to advertise it correctly and get it to a welcoming home.
maybe anyone with an early 67 GT500 can check theirs as a comparison to help further . Maybe its a very early 67 casting
thanks so far, and thanks for any more info.
here is the link to the one I saw at shelby parts ...
https://shelbypartsstore.com/?product=1967-gt500-original-restored-oval-air-cleaner-assembly
Although not a part of the original question of wether the top was for 68 or not to answer the different question of application is the top looks to be a original sand cast lid used on early 67 GT500's. The earliest sand cast lids were bare aluminum and later sand cast lids were black wrinkle like the later diecast lids. For others reading the 67 Shelby lids were designed not to come with a hole in the middle. It was designed for duel four applications which used the two outer holes The hole in the middle was a easy way to make the lid usable on a single four application starting in 1968. Besides the different styles of letters used on sand cast vs. diecast lids the 1968 lids were all diecast and not sand cast like the picture. Also a 67 lid has the outside edge sanded (not polished) like the top fins. The 68 on the other hand left the side painted and only the top side sanded. The incorrect hole in the center of this early 67 sand cast lid consequently diminishes the resale value of the lid. If you try and fix the hole and refinish the metal you will find that a faint outline of the hole will remain because of different content aluminum metals. It will never be 100% again. Don't misinterpret what I mean because it is still a valuable lid but just not as valuable as un damage lid that never had a hole drilled in it fixed or not. How much less is a difficult question because the hole witness line would be a non starter for many buyers concerned about originality. Others with lesser expectations may not be concerned because of lower price. They don't come up for sale often damaged or undamaged.
So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, the lid in discussion in the first pictures is an original, black crinkle finish, sand cast variation with no injection circles on the bottom side. The one pictured on the Shelby Restoration site is an original, earlier, natural finish, sand cast with the injection circles on the under side of the lid. I don't see any circles (little hard to tell) on the lid in discussion.
Also, is this a typical mark on some '68 style lids? Centered on bottom side and may say "Rockford".
You are a little mixed up on details. First picture is of a early sand cast lid that has mistakenly had a hole drilled in the center of the lid so that it will work with the pictured 68 base. Sand cast lids (straight leg R) like pictured here and on website link have no mold marks on bottom side. Only diecast lids (curved leg R) have those injection mold marks if genuine.
Quote from: 430dragpack on September 29, 2021, 06:31:58 PM
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 29, 2021, 05:52:16 PM
In your opinion what would the value be of an original early 67 top with a correct 2x4 bottom bottom. I have 3 different 2x4 bottoms and I also have a 68 single for original bottom.
Roy
Roy,
Do any of your 2x4 bases have a squareish/rectangle pad where an emission tube is or could be installed? If so, I believe those are the Galaxie-Fairlane-Comet medium riser base. Did the 500s use this style as well?
Not Roy but I have seen some very early GT500's with the hard right angle fitting on the bottom. The most common is a curved 90 degree tube fitting. Regardless of which fitting they both are swedged (crimped) in place. They will rotate. I don't know if all of the genuine hard right angle fittings will rotate but the ones used on the Shelby's all did. The only ones I have ever seen that would not rotate are cast in place as part of the base and are reproductions.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 29, 2021, 07:09:31 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on September 29, 2021, 06:07:05 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 29, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: brandosaac on September 29, 2021, 12:04:25 PM
Thank again for all the input ,
Yes, I was always under the assumption of ways to identify these is that it had to have ALL of the following... wider than tall "O" curvend leg on "R" faint box around the "COBRA" and the small circles on the rear,
But,
I did see an almost identicle top on Shelby part and restorations website.
They have an original eatly 67 GT500 air cleaner , claimed to be used on the first 600 cars on their website and the top looks identicle to what I have .
still curious , and want to advertise it correctly and get it to a welcoming home.
maybe anyone with an early 67 GT500 can check theirs as a comparison to help further . Maybe its a very early 67 casting
thanks so far, and thanks for any more info.
here is the link to the one I saw at shelby parts ...
https://shelbypartsstore.com/?product=1967-gt500-original-restored-oval-air-cleaner-assembly
Although not a part of the original question of wether the top was for 68 or not to answer the different question of application is the top looks to be a original sand cast lid used on early 67 GT500's. The earliest sand cast lids were bare aluminum and later sand cast lids were black wrinkle like the later diecast lids. For others reading the 67 Shelby lids were designed not to come with a hole in the middle. It was designed for duel four applications which used the two outer holes The hole in the middle was a easy way to make the lid usable on a single four application starting in 1968. Besides the different styles of letters used on sand cast vs. diecast lids the 1968 lids were all diecast and not sand cast like the picture. Also a 67 lid has the outside edge sanded (not polished) like the top fins. The 68 on the other hand left the side painted and only the top side sanded. The incorrect hole in the center of this early 67 sand cast lid consequently diminishes the resale value of the lid. If you try and fix the hole and refinish the metal you will find that a faint outline of the hole will remain because of different content aluminum metals. It will never be 100% again. Don't misinterpret what I mean because it is still a valuable lid but just not as valuable as un damage lid that never had a hole drilled in it fixed or not. How much less is a difficult question because the hole witness line would be a non starter for many buyers concerned about originality. Others with lesser expectations may not be concerned because of lower price. They don't come up for sale often damaged or undamaged.
So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, the lid in discussion in the first pictures is an original, black crinkle finish, sand cast variation with no injection circles on the bottom side. The one pictured on the Shelby Restoration site is an original, earlier, natural finish, sand cast with the injection circles on the under side of the lid. I don't see any circles (little hard to tell) on the lid in discussion.
Also, is this a typical mark on some '68 style lids? Centered on bottom side and may say "Rockford".
You are a little mixed up on details. First picture is of a early sand cast lid that has mistakenly had a hole drilled in the center of the lid so that it will work with the pictured 68 base. Sand cast lids (straight leg R) like pictured here and on website link have no mold marks on bottom side. Only diecast lids (curved leg R) have those injection mold marks if genuine.
I see the problem, the fourth picture of the air cleaner assembly on Shelby Resto's web site is not supposed to be with that listing. The fourth picture is a die cast assembly, the first three are the sand cast version.
What are the pieces that are spot welded to the base plate remnants of? I'm of the understanding that some of the early '68 Shelbys used a special bracket that attached to the carburetor so the dual quad lid could be used, unmodified.
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72873;image)
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72874;image)
Steve
Quote from: 430dragpack on September 29, 2021, 06:31:58 PM
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 29, 2021, 05:52:16 PM
In your opinion what would the value be of an original early 67 top with a correct 2x4 bottom bottom. I have 3 different 2x4 bottoms and I also have a 68 single for original bottom.
Roy
Roy,
Do any of your 2x4 bases have a squareish/rectangle pad where an emission tube is or could be installed? If so, I believe those are the Galaxie-Fairlane-Comet medium riser base.
Yes, I do have one of those bottoms. I will post pictures of what I have.
Roy
More pictures
A last picture of a 2x4 bottom and a couple of an NOS Autosport Shelby top and filter. Filter is an FA48
Roy
Quote from: 8T03S1425 on September 30, 2021, 03:44:59 PM
What are the pieces that are spot welded to the base plate remnants of? I'm of the understanding that some of the early '68 Shelbys used a special bracket that attached to the carburetor so the dual quad lid could be used, unmodified.
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72873;image)
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72874;image)
Steve
Those are the remnants of the 2 "L" shaped studs for using the 2 wingnuts.
My question on the 68 sheet metal base is; did they all come with the sheet metal piece that went across the top of the carb to hold it down? I don't see any evidence of it on the one pictured.
Here's a picture of the top side of my 68 base.
Roy
Quote from: 8T03S1425 on September 30, 2021, 03:44:59 PM
What are the pieces that are spot welded to the base plate remnants of? I'm of the understanding that some of the early '68 Shelbys used a special bracket that attached to the carburetor so the dual quad lid could be used, unmodified.
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72873;image)
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72874;image)
Steve
Here's a couple of pictures for you.
Roy
Quote from: KR Convertible on September 30, 2021, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: 8T03S1425 on September 30, 2021, 03:44:59 PM
What are the pieces that are spot welded to the base plate remnants of? I'm of the understanding that some of the early '68 Shelbys used a special bracket that attached to the carburetor so the dual quad lid could be used, unmodified.
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72873;image)
(https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16457.0;attach=72874;image)
Steve
Those are the remnants of the 2 "L" shaped studs for using the 2 wingnuts.
Thanks Paul
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 30, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
More pictures
Is the spider web patterned base an original or someone's reproduction?
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 07:04:47 AM
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 30, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
More pictures
Is the spider web patterned base an original or someone's reproduction?
If you are talking about the dual 4v, aluminum base, with the Shelby part number, in Roy's post #17, it is the die cast base that started getting used in later '67 production. Others will have approximate car numbers.
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 29, 2022, 08:00:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 07:04:47 AM
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 30, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
More pictures
Is the spider web patterned base an original or someone's reproduction?
If you are talking about the dual 4v, aluminum base, with the Shelby part number, in Roy's post #17, it is the die cast base that started getting used in later '67 production. Others will have approximate car numbers.
Yes but the picture doesn't show the S7MS and is showing a rubber grommet. I generally refrain from saying one is original and another a repro simply since it isn't scientifically proven that there aren't a couple more "original" variations regardless of knowledgeable opinions out there.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 08:51:50 AM
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 29, 2022, 08:00:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 07:04:47 AM
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 30, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
More pictures
Is the spider web patterned base an original or someone's reproduction?
If you are talking about the dual 4v, aluminum base, with the Shelby part number, in Roy's post #17, it is the die cast base that started getting used in later '67 production. Others will have approximate car numbers.
Yes but the picture doesn't show the S7MS and is showing a rubber grommet. I generally refrain from saying one is original and another a repro simply since it isn't scientifically proven that there aren't a couple more "original" variations regardless of knowledgeable opinions out there.
The picture in post #17 does have the S7MS engineering number in the middle and seen if you blow up the picture. It is however a service variation or owner modified. I have not seen any evidence in many decades of observation of survivor cars with a base without the elbow being used on a 67 GT500 from the factory.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 29, 2022, 10:39:59 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 08:51:50 AM
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 29, 2022, 08:00:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 07:04:47 AM
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 30, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
More pictures
Is the spider web patterned base an original or someone's reproduction?
If you are talking about the dual 4v, aluminum base, with the Shelby part number, in Roy's post #17, it is the die cast base that started getting used in later '67 production. Others will have approximate car numbers.
Yes but the picture doesn't show the S7MS and is showing a rubber grommet. I generally refrain from saying one is original and another a repro simply since it isn't scientifically proven that there aren't a couple more "original" variations regardless of knowledgeable opinions out there.
The picture in post #17 does have the S7MS engineering number in the middle and seen if you blow up the picture. It is however a service variation or owner modified. I have not seen any evidence in many decades of observation of survivor cars with a base without the elbow being used on a 67 GT500 from the factory.
So in your observation you have not seen the spiderweb base that is without the S7MS cast into it?
That is not a very common base plate to begin with. Can't have originally been on many cars and all late ones as well.
I'm not arguing here. Just asking for opinions based apparently on observations? I don't see or have seen any documentation on base plates, just these discussion here which some will turn around and claim is docmentation.
Thinking back on the last 50 years, documentation based on observations has not been the most reliable. ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 11:07:23 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 29, 2022, 10:39:59 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 08:51:50 AM
Quote from: 430dragpack on November 29, 2022, 08:00:21 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 29, 2022, 07:04:47 AM
Quote from: TA Coupe on September 30, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
More pictures
Is the spider web patterned base an original or someone's reproduction?
If you are talking about the dual 4v, aluminum base, with the Shelby part number, in Roy's post #17, it is the die cast base that started getting used in later '67 production. Others will have approximate car numbers.
Yes but the picture doesn't show the S7MS and is showing a rubber grommet. I generally refrain from saying one is original and another a repro simply since it isn't scientifically proven that there aren't a couple more "original" variations regardless of knowledgeable opinions out there.
The picture in post #17 does have the S7MS engineering number in the middle and seen if you blow up the picture. It is however a service variation or owner modified. I have not seen any evidence in many decades of observation of survivor cars with a base without the elbow being used on a 67 GT500 from the factory.
So in your observation you have not seen the spiderweb base that is without the S7MS cast into it?
That is not a very common base plate to begin with. Can't have originally been on many cars and all late ones as well.
I'm not arguing here. Just asking for opinions based apparently on observations? I don't see or have seen any documentation on base plates, just these discussion here which some will turn around and claim is docmentation.
Thinking back on the last 50 years, documentation based on observations has not been the most reliable. ;)
I have not seen or heard of a duel four die cast base (one with strength gussets ) that you refer to as spider web that was assemblyline original that did not have a S7MS engineering number. There are assemblyine plain bottom sand cast bases that do not have engineering numbers . They have different genuine looking tells. The base in the picture you referenced has the S7MS number so I am not sure where you are going with this.
You answered the question. Thank you for sharing your experience with it.