if you are looking for a decent alternative to TireRacks poor 14" tire selection ( and I'm specifically referring to the BFG Radial T/A AKA "the widowmaker" as being the best 14" TireRack carries)
I found this tire place that looks like it still can get the Pirelli P-4 in the 195/70-14 size. They might have other 14" sizes, I don't know. I used the P-4 in that size, 195/70-14, on my '66 GT350 and was a night and day improvement in wet and dry traction over the BFG Radial T/A which I had tried in the 225/60-14 size.
https://www.eurotire.com/Pirelli-P4-Four-Seasons-Plus-Tire-detail.htm?productId=25771572&optionId=25771586&ez=&pos=8
Z
PS my apologies if their website is out of date
great... i used to get something from them back in the 70s or 80s - nice to see that they are still around and offer choices in the "outdated" 14" and 15" sizes
when tire rack quit carrying the Pirelli P-4 in 14" sizes I thought they had been discontinued, but if eurotire is indeed carrying them, great .
if BFG really wanted to give us a solid, they would bring back the Comp T/A in 14" sizes. They may have worn quickly, but they were great help when it came to keeping all 4 wheels on the pavement.
Z
Universal Tire offers a number of 14" tires of various sizes and brands including Firestone Wide Oval RADIALS...
https://www.universaltire.com/firestone-tires/firestone-wide-oval.html
not cheap, but available.
Quote from: JD on March 17, 2019, 10:20:55 PM
Universal Tire offers a number of 14" tires of various sizes and brands including Firestone Wide Oval RADIALS...
https://www.universaltire.com/firestone-tires/firestone-wide-oval.html
not cheap, but available.
At the prices charged by these reproduction tire places, you'd think they could manage to give us a speed rating better than "S" or "T". Those prices are getting close to Avon-land. If $230 a tire for an S rated tire doesn't bother me, then ponying up $350 per tire for a V or W rated tire is going to seem like a bargain.
PS. those (universaltire.com) tires look like the same tires carried by Cokertires.com
Z
^^^ agreed !!
I couldn't justify paying those prices for BFG. I ended up getting Cooper "trendsetters". From Americas tire. Blackwall. Fine for what I need and way cheaper. And you can get whitewalls if you want. And the blackwall is very plain no extra decoration.
Michelin XWX . . . 215/70VR14 . . . expensive, but worth it.
zray - I have read your posts over the years and your displeasure with the Goodrich tires. I am not challenging you or disagreeing with you in any way, but looking for an education. Can you pass along your experiences, any test or studies on why these tires are not a good choice? My application is for a '65-70 street driven car (no high performance driving/racing).
Jeff
Quote from: JWH on March 18, 2019, 11:06:15 AM
zray - I have read your posts over the years and your displeasure with the Goodrich tires. I am not challenging you or disagreeing with you in any way, but looking for an education. Can you pass along your experiences, any test or studies on why these tires are not good a good choice? My application is for a '65-70 street driven car (no high performance driving/racing).
Jeff
I have heard they are very hard, and have poor grip even in dry, let alone rain. This plus the price point made me look for something else.
Quote from: Dkutz on March 18, 2019, 02:52:45 PM
I have heard they are very hard, and have poor grip even in dry, let alone rain. This plus the price point made me look for something else.
^^ I've heard that too, had a car that had those on it when I bought it - first thing I did was change them.
I've run a couple of sets of BFG's on my car. I don't typically drive my car in the rain so can't speak to that, but I find they do have pretty good traction in dry weather. My car is used only as an occasional driver. I also run BFG's on my 70 Cougar convertible summer driver. As they age over several years, I found the the rubber does harden and the grip deteriorates which is why I bought a new set last time long before they wore out, but I expect that happens with most if not all tires. For my type of use, I'd by another set, but that's just me.
We've got Goodrich T/A's on our '66 convertible. Not a hi po car, but decent tires for our kind of driving. Ron
I might try the Michelins.
Anyone else using them?
Quote from: Bigfoot on March 18, 2019, 08:55:14 PM
I might try the Michelins.
Anyone else using them?
See reply #7 above ^^^^
Quote from: JWH on March 18, 2019, 11:06:15 AM
zray - I have read your posts over the years and your displeasure with the Goodrich tires. I am not challenging you or disagreeing with you in any way, but looking for an education. Can you pass along your experiences, any test or studies on why these tires are not a good choice? My application is for a '65-70 street driven car (no high performance driving/racing).
Jeff
I have nothing against BF Goodrich tires as a group. I loved the BFG Comp T/A when they made them in 14" sizes, pre 2005 +/-. I wore out 2 or 3 sets of them on '66 GT350's. But they quit making them.
I have a set of 18' BFG Comp 2 A/S on my '02 Jaguar XKR. very nice soft tire.
The 14' and 15" BFG Radial T/A is another matter. I don't have statistics, tire tests or studies to rely on. Just my personal experience, which several other people on the VMF have echoed . All of us who castigate the Radial T/A have used it on a classic daily driver, and have thousands of miles of experience with it.
In my view, the primary fault of the Radial T/A is that it will instantly lose traction, at normal speeds, without giving any warning like howling or squealing, and then there's no catching it with steering, etc. like you can with most well designed tires. The combination of the tread design and the tire compound adds up to a tire that has no traction when cornering. doesn't matter if the road is wet or dry, the Radial T/A will let go of it's grip on the road at some point during normal driving at or under the posted speed limits.
It only takes 2 or 3 times before a driver comes to the conclusion that "it ain't me, it's the tire."
I've never had any experience with pushing the Radial T/A on a track. I'm crazy but not that crazy.
Z
PS I get plenty of push back on my displeasure with the Radial T/A. Usually from those who don't drive their car much. If they are liking their tire selection, and I don't have to ride in their car, it's none of my business. I'd rather ride in car with 40 loose rattlesnakes than depend on the Radial T/A's. At least the rattlesnakes will usually give you a little warning before they kill you.
Just confirmed by EURO-TIRE: Pirelli P4's are discontinued. NLA
Quote from: NC TRACKRAT on March 19, 2019, 09:54:23 AM
Just confirmed by EURO-TIRE: Pirelli P4's are discontinued. NLA
back to square one for 14" tires.
Anyone used Vredestein Sprint Classics? Tire rack has the 205/70VR14 for $265/ea...
why use 70 series tires? there were no 70 series tires til 1968/69.
the 70 series tire has a smaller diameter than the more correct non 70 series. the smaller diameter will cause the engine to run higher rpm's at any speed. i would prefer a 205r-14 size. it is closer to the orig tire diameter.
Quote from: EdwardGT350 on March 19, 2019, 06:04:50 PM
why use 70 series tires? there were no 70 series tires til 1968/69.
the 70 series tire has a smaller diameter than the more correct non 70 series. the smaller diameter will cause the engine to run higher rpm's at any speed. i would prefer a 205r-14 size. it is closer to the orig tire diameter.
On '66 GT350's, the 14" tires (that came on the 14" 10 spoke wheels, etc) were 6.95x14. The modern equivalent is 185/75-14. The 195/70-14's that I used were only 0.2" smaller in diameter than the original 6.95x14's. Not enough to make the speedo inaccurate, only 6 tire revolution per mile less
Quote from: EdwardGT350 on March 19, 2019, 06:04:50 PM"...... i would prefer a 205r-14 size. it is closer to the orig tire diameter.
a 205r-14 tire has a 27" diameter. Might be some rubbing ? The 205r-14's I'm finding online are for trailers, not cars or trucks
https://tiresize.com/tiresizes/205R14.htm
Z
any thoughts...
for those that are pro bf goodrich
orig blue streak specs
Quote from: EdwardGT350 on March 19, 2019, 08:35:57 PM
orig blue streak specs
Maybe the size specifications are close, but the tire compound and speed rating don't do justice to the original, so not close specifications where it matters most.
mtc
Z
Quote from: EdwardGT350 on March 19, 2019, 07:31:01 PM
any thoughts...
I put these (Trendsetter SE white walls) on the T-bird last year. They are noted [elsewhere?] as an "entry level" tire. Price was great.
I'm happy with the look and ride - which is key for this particular application - not sure how suited they would be to anything else?
(https://i.imgur.com/4Okgx0wm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ETKfhF4.jpg)
Quote from: EdwardGT350 on March 19, 2019, 07:31:01 PM
any thoughts...
thats what I have on my car. But I don't have a shelby, and its just a weekend cruiser. I like them so far, and they look good too...
tiger paws!!
Back in the day, car manufacturers prepared their test cars that were going to be given to the "press" to review them.
One of the unspoken little tricks that they did was install special soft compound tires for better traction. A tire that was unavailable to the general public.
In all these years, I've never seen nor heard of any tire manufacturer offering these to the public.
Certainly in Shelby's case he probably had an "in" with Goodyear as a tire distributor.
I do think that I remember a magazine article that mentioned this briefly in passing and showing a picture of a tire on a test "Shelby" showing a large letter S that was characteristically missing on any car delivered to a customer. Unfortunately I don't remember the specific article and I certainly don't have a copy here.
It certainly could contribute to what some considered optimistic testing times.
All things considered, the counterfeit Goodyears on Avons are looking better but I'd point out that as long as I can remember there was always a trick to making tires work and maybe the real issue here is that on a performance car, the owner/operator needs to be more than a numb nuts. There is no plug and play on a tire and anything that you buy, like standing in the batters box on a MLB pitcher, you should be careful that you don't get killed? You need to know how and when to get out of the way FIRST. ;)
This is one of those discussions that can go round and round. 99 percent of all Shelby ownership take their cars to the shows,or for ice cream with the grandchildren. No spirited driving for them, so what do they install on their pride and joy? Most of us go back to the early days of what we liked back in the day, for me there was no Cooper Cobras, Tiger paws or any generic tires because that's what the poor kids, or more appropriate in todays world would be financially challenged young people Hot Rodders used. Any of the BFG offerings is what was used by the (IN) crowd, 40 years later I still feel the same way. Now if you have a lead foot and haulin ass is in your blood then ditch the 14s and install some 15s with some track tires of your choice and there are some very good ones at that. All vintage race gatherings use these tires and work very well, and look the part. :)
Quote from: 427heaven on April 06, 2019, 10:33:24 AM
This is one of those discussions that can go round and round. 99 percent of all Shelby ownership take their cars to the shows,or for ice cream with the grandchildren. No spirited driving for them, so what do they install on their pride and joy? Most of us go back to the early days of what we liked back in the day, for me there was no Cooper Cobras, Tiger paws or any generic tires because that's what the poor kids, or more appropriate in todays world would be financially challenged young people Hot Rodders used. Any of the BFG offerings is what was used by the (IN) crowd, 40 years later I still feel the same way. Now if you have a lead foot and haulin ass is in your blood then ditch the 14s and install some 15s with some track tires of your choice and there are some very good ones at that. All vintage race gatherings use these tires and work very well, and look the part. :)
+1
Remember Pos-a-Traction brand Torque-Twisters? Huge, wide, tires with even scarier wet road manners than the old style T/As. Lots of them on muscle cars in SoCal, in the '70s.
I was a T/A guy. Super Shops had regular radio ads for "BF Goodrich T/A radials as low as $39.99" Of course, those were 13-inch diameter tires for Pintos and Vegas.
I grew up in SO CAL and remember them very well, if something cool was going on it happened in SO CAL first. Speed shops, race tracks, special cars, raised white letter tires, cruising, rock bands at the whiskey a go- go, troubadour, beach babes and tube tops... Oh my, we didn't know how much fun we were having ;D
Quote from: 427heaven on April 06, 2019, 08:47:16 PM
I grew up in SO CAL and remember them very well, if something cool was going on it happened in SO CAL first. Speed shops, race tracks, special cars, raised white letter tires, cruising, rock bands at the whiskey a go- go, troubadour, beach babes and tube tops... Oh my, we didn't know how much fun we were having ;D
+100 !!!
Don't forget 93 KHJ Boss Radio (AM) and later KMET 94.7 FM. Everybody listened to them.
Where did you live in SoCal? I'm from Culver City. Cruised Van Nuys, Westchester, Redondo Beach, Hollywood, etc. most nights.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on April 06, 2019, 05:13:46 PM
+1
Remember Pos-a-Traction brand Torque-Twisters? Huge, wide, tires with even scarier wet road manners than the old style T/As. Lots of them on muscle cars in SoCal, in the '70s.
I was a T/A guy. Super Shops had regular radio ads for "BF Goodrich T/A radials as low as $39.99" Of course, those were 13-inch diameter tires for Pintos and Vegas.
Torque Twisters on chrome Cragar SS wheels were the Shebang in the late Seventies up in Washington too. Imagine diving them in snow. :o
And you wonder why I bought a set of the nice 17" ten spokes and put my 15" rims in their boxes.
-Keith
Quote from: Side-Oilers on April 06, 2019, 11:18:40 PM
Quote from: 427heaven on April 06, 2019, 08:47:16 PM
I grew up in SO CAL and remember them very well, if something cool was going on it happened in SO CAL first. Speed shops, race tracks, special cars, raised white letter tires, cruising, rock bands at the whiskey a go- go, troubadour, beach babes and tube tops... Oh my, we didn't know how much fun we were having ;D
+100 !!!
Don't forget 93 KHJ Boss Radio (AM) and later KMET 94.7 FM. Everybody listened to them.
Where did you live in SoCal? I'm from Culver City. Cruised Van Nuys, Westchester, Redondo Beach, Hollywood, etc. most nights.
Im a Valley dude Hanging in out with the Valley girls, from the SF valley, I had my 39.00 stereo locked in to the Mighty Met as well listening to Frazier Smith and Jeff Gonzer... WHOOOAHH! Good times for sure. I spent most of my time spending my last dollars at the Van Nuys Super Shops for the little nick nack BS stuff that looked cool and down the road I hung out at the Supelveda Service center for the go fast parts. They were real racers there and knew how to make a kid feel like he was getting his 100.00 dollars worth. The owner of the Service center owned a top fuel dragster and would occasionally roll it out onto Sepulveda and do a 750 foot long burnout while we watched / blocked traffic for safety concerns. ;D Looking at the picture of that beautiful yellow car brought back memories of what you wanted your car to look like, in your face look at me and ohhh so cool.I have to laugh when I read how ill handling those old tires are or were, when your looking for the coolness factor you don't care how well it handles but how cool it looks. I just pretended I was driving a dirt track car and learned how to control a car that was trying to swap ends.
I grew up in the cradle of speed too. I grew up not far from Mc Donnell-Douglas Aircraft. Running at Terminal Island when Big Willie was there. It wasn't the sixties but about 1981. Cruising PCH, the Strand, Whittier Boulevard and a few others. As the Low Riders started doing the same violence came into play and as usual, the few bad ruined it for those who where looking for a bit of eye candy and hijenks. I never drank, did drugs or vandalism.
Unlike the millennials and current crop of unmotivated kids I never sat in the house in front of the TV, played video games or slept all the time.
I played sports, worked a part time job and when I became a junior in high school I started community college. I had a college class that started at 0530. Two after school.
Reath Automotive did most of my work back in the day, or Leland at Curtis and Christensen on Anaheim Boulevard in Long Beach. I remember the Super Shops, Downey Speed, Service Centers and the constant bombardment of commercials on KLOS and KMET radio stations.
I probably was fringe because I had a 1969 Datsun SSS 510 and a 2000 Roadster before buying the Shelby. The "Ricers" were a rarity in the day and my 1985 Toyota turbo truck that Garret Air Research used to make their intercooler kit and adjustable wastegate.
I blew the doors off a brand new Corvette with the window stickers still in it the first night I brought it home after the intercooler kit was installed and the HKS computer. The guys wouldn't even look at me at the next light.
It's easier to long for simpler times, isn't it?
-Keith
All the fun and games ended when I entered military service and OCS. I miss the sim
427heaven and Eight-Barrel: We were probably out there are the same time....Van Nuys, Strand and regular trips out to OCIR and Irwindale drag strips.
Westchester had a good street racing culture too. Meet up at the Bob's Big Boy on Manchester Blvd, then head over to Pershing Blvd to run. Pershing was only about a mile-and-a-half long, but was six lanes wide and straight. It was on the far back side of LAX, mostly for cargo use, so not much traffic, especially late at night.
Yes, the low riders ruined the Van Nuys cruise (and other places) in the early/mid-80s. Got dangerous. Cops closed it down. Used to be, the LAPD was just sort of in the background.
On Van Nuys Blvd, we usually parked in front of the Super Shops to watch the action.
Culver City had a place like Service Center. Performance Unlimited. The store wasn't flashy like Super Shops, was more hard core.
Love the story about the dragster burnout on Sepulveda. Good times.
I think what breaks my heart is what the liberals did to the state. I have been in the DFW area since 2003, but it was a nice place to grow up. My last return there in 2013 left me flabbergasted. S*it hole fits. Looks like a third world country.
The good news is a lot of us have started up a couple cruise nights. Grapevine on Friday nights and In and Out on Saturday.
Some of you may remember Frisco Burger in Downey on Woodruff Ave or Mel's Drive in on Firestone Boulevard in Downey.
The creative mechanical types like us this will end with.
I feel old now.
-Keith
Dennis
Where was that on Sepulveda?
I know it was years later but I lived on Sepulveda in 92.
1967 eight barrel, you are so right and now New York and California are in a contest to see who can destroy their State faster, its neck and neck, sometime CA is ahead and sometimes NY passes them around that track of destruction. What scares me is that the people are moving to other States hoping to cause ruin to them too! WOW great to hear the stories though! I sometimes wonder if we should just give those two States away and lets just have 48 States. It is so true...."Dumb and Dumber"
Quote from: Bigfoot on April 07, 2019, 07:36:23 PM
Dennis
Where was that on Sepulveda?
I know it was years later but I lived on Sepulveda in 92.
[/ quote] It was real close to Roscoe and Sepulveda blvds, on the north end of town.
Quote from: 427heaven on April 07, 2019, 08:11:42 PM
Quote from: Bigfoot on April 07, 2019, 07:36:23 PM
Dennis
Where was that on Sepulveda?
I know it was years later but I lived on Sepulveda in 92.
[/ quote] It was real close to Roscoe and Sepulveda blvds, on the north end of town.
We spent a bunch of time at Bob Jennings' Dyno Shop on Sepulveda in that general area. Plenty of fast street & drag guys used Jennings for performance work.
I definitely remember that Service Center store.
That was the place to be back in the day... Now all the fast guys go to Bill Maropolous to dyno there stuff. He has a lot of world record holding engines in many types of race cars. ;D
Quote from: Side-Oilers on April 06, 2019, 11:18:40 PM
Quote from: 427heaven on April 06, 2019, 08:47:16 PM
I grew up in SO CAL and remember them very well, if something cool was going on it happened in SO CAL first. Speed shops, race tracks, special cars, raised white letter tires, cruising, rock bands at the whiskey a go- go, troubadour, beach babes and tube tops... Oh my, we didn't know how much fun we were having ;D
+100 !!!
Don't forget 93 KHJ Boss Radio (AM) and later KMET 94.7 FM. Everybody listened to them.
Where did you live in SoCal? I'm from Culver City. Cruised Van Nuys, Westchester, Redondo Beach, Hollywood, etc. most nights.
Just watched Motley Crue's "The Dirt" on my 'puter, and Vince Neil had a mansion on Redondo Beach.
I'm in the Blue Ridge Mtns in W. North Carolina and as a teen back in the 70's always wanted to visit SoCal.
May get there one day ;)
Come on out, but bring your time machine.
I wasn't into the "Valley scene" too much. It was a run. However, So Ca was a place where you could network and you could get anything done. If you couldn't find someone to do it, someone knew someone who did. Torrance had a pretty good group too. I used to go over and talk to Little Joe at Shelby's Gardena location. Every once in a while the man would drop in himself.
As for competent machinist; worth their salt have passed or long given up working.
Here in the DFW area it's difficult to find anyone that knows anything about the FE. It's a shot in the dark, and machinist in general that seems to be the case.
-Keith
It totally hard to get things done well anymore. I am right now in Upstate New York, our county is the best in the country for people who want to move where "help" from the county/state is plentiful, we have the best handouts out there! Like I said we are in competition with California to see who can run the state the "stupidest!" Nobody want to work anymore. My Boss 302 was a basket case, it went to 4 deadbeat "body/restoration" shops, in my area, before I found out that my old shop and trusted Shelby restorer was still doing cars! He saved my car! And that is why, older cars are loosing value, there is nobody left to restore them.
Getting back on topic and following up on my selection for new tires on 6S1467, I was able to source 5 ea. BF Goodrich Touring T/A's in 195/70x14. They discontinued this blackwall tire a couple of years ago but some stock still remains and at a very reasonable price compared to the Radial T/A. This is a T-speed rated tire with a much different and improved tread pattern over the Radial T/A which is only S-rated. After installation yesterday, I'm pleased with the result in that the tires are very close to the original dimensions of the Goodyear Bluestreak. The car now sits at least an inch lower than when shod with the 205/70x14's...in fact, with the 10-spokes, I measured the actual, on-the-ground height of the tire right at 24 inches.
We took a detour wondering through the woods for a bit... Back to the tires, going to 15s makes the selection so much better, and very cost affective as well.
Agreed...and it allows rationalization to buy a set of new wheels! ;)
Apologies for the side trip through the woods, but we heard that Grandma had a long-lost 427 Cobra in her barn.
Glad your search for tires/wheels ended up good.