Have you guys used a lift plate when installing an engine for a dual quad GT 500? Did you remove both carbs? Which carb (front or back) did you use to install the lift plate? I read that an aluminum intake is fine with a lift plate as long as you thread the bolts in securely Additionally, I am considering the Mac's Pivot Plate as an option. Any experience/testimonials with it?
http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/product/pivot-engine-lift-plate/PiVOT-and-Adapters
Finally,
Here is what I am considering on the day of installation ...
1) Early start with lots of coffee and friends that know what they are doing!
2) Use packing blanket or other material to protect engine compartment
3) Lift rear of car
3) Hoist engine and trans together
4) Clear radiator support and then tilt engine
5) Gently guide engine/trans until trans touches floor jack
6) Jack up rear of trans while leveling engine to motor mounts
I have headers. Some have suggested loosening the passenger side header for ease of installation.
What about power steering sleeve and valve. Should I remove them first?
Celebrate Big Block reunion! Last installed in 1973!
Thanks
Ron
This is in my '68 but almost identical... enjoy
Chris
https://youtu.be/w4iS2vaA79I (https://youtu.be/w4iS2vaA79I)
Wow! A one man show with exhaust attached! Well done.
Thanks Chris!
Ron
Make your life easier and do without the trans. Headers could be a challenge
I and others I know have used the Mac plate for decades. Mac bought the rights to the plate within the last 10 years. You want to have the headers positioned in the engine compartment so you will not have maneuver them in after. That is if they have been in before. If a new set most likely you will have to clearance the tubes on the driver side. If they fit without a few we'll placed kisses from a ball peen hammer stop what you are doing and go buy a powerball lottery ticket. Install engine with the idler arm disconnected so as to drop the drag link. Also install with master out of the way if you can. Installing without the valve covers will help. Don't install any accessories until after. Can be done just harder imo . Installing without the trans is a snap. With the trans not so much. Done it both ways.Best of luck.
Quote from: Coralsnake on October 09, 2018, 08:15:45 PM
Make your life easier and do without the trans. Headers could be a challenge
This - also use 1 friend only. Easiest way to deter results is to assign a committee.
Thanks for the great replies everyone!
I still need to know if the lift plate goes on the front or rear carb location or does it matter?
Torque converter should be in next week with mid 50 to mid 70 temperatures outside. That is great Texas outdoor weather!
Ron
Quote from: rbarkley on October 10, 2018, 12:10:06 PM
Thanks for the great replies everyone!
I still need to know if the lift plate goes on the front or rear carb location or does it matter?
Torque converter should be in next week with mid 50 to mid 70 temperatures outside. That is great Texas outdoor weather!
Ron
Its a matter of positioning the lift plate in the "center" of the intake manifold so that the engine is relatively level when suspended. This is not an issue with a single carburetor. With the dual 4 setup, you might have to get creative to position the lift plate in the center.
Hope this helps.
Frank
Quote from: OldGuy on October 10, 2018, 12:23:04 PM
Quote from: rbarkley on October 10, 2018, 12:10:06 PM
Thanks for the great replies everyone!
I still need to know if the lift plate goes on the front or rear carb location or does it matter?
Torque converter should be in next week with mid 50 to mid 70 temperatures outside. That is great Texas outdoor weather!
Ron
Yes centered is typically best however I have used ether on the C7ZX intake when lifting. If the forward hole is used you can get a little more tilt when trying to install the trans at the same time. FYI if installing trans best to not fluidize until in the car and even if drained be sure to use a good plug on the end of the trans so no leaks. I use a spare driveshaft front yoke. I typically roll the car under the hoist/engine instead of rolling the hoist back and forth.
Its a matter of positioning the lift plate in the "center" of the intake manifold so that the engine is relatively level when suspended. This is not an issue with a single carburetor. With the dual 4 setup, you might have to get creative to position the lift plate in the center.
Hope this helps.
Frank
There are different lift plates available which doesn't really matter at all. Center the plate between the front and rear carbs, you might need to drill 2 new holes to catch the front 2 studs of the rear carb. The plate and studs are plenty strong to lift the mighty fe in place. Make sure you use flat washers on each stud to distribute the load across that small surface area, and WAALA in goes your engine. Good Luck
Buy 2 lift plates, and attach to both carb locations, that's what I did, makes life real simple and easy
Quote from: OldGuy on October 10, 2018, 12:23:04 PM
Quote from: rbarkley on October 10, 2018, 12:10:06 PM
Thanks for the great replies everyone!
I still need to know if the lift plate goes on the front or rear carb location or does it matter?
Torque converter should be in next week with mid 50 to mid 70 temperatures outside. That is great Texas outdoor weather!
Ron
Its a matter of positioning the lift plate in the "center" of the intake manifold so that the engine is relatively level when suspended. This is not an issue with a single carburetor. With the dual 4 setup, you might have to get creative to position the lift plate in the center.
Hope this helps.
Frank
Quote from: CSX 3183 on October 10, 2018, 07:39:38 PM
Buy 2 lift plates, and attach to both carb locations, that's what I did, makes life real simple and easy
The Mac lift plate is a adjustable one and not statationary. It is not designed to be used in tandom. I am not sure how you would use that style in tandom. http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/category/PiVOT-and-Adapters
There's proof ya ask 100 guys how do you remove a motor or install. and you will get 100 different answers. ;)
I was of course speaking of your plain ol everyday standard lift plates, not this adjustable one
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 10, 2018, 09:47:47 PM
Quote from: CSX 3183 on October 10, 2018, 07:39:38 PM
Buy 2 lift plates, and attach to both carb locations, that's what I did, makes life real simple and easy
The Mac lift plate is a adjustable one and not statationary. It is not designed to be used in tandom. I am not sure how you would use that style in tandom. http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/category/PiVOT-and-Adapters
I recently installed my engine with the drivers side header installed on the engine.. I placed the passenger side header in the engine bay..Once i got it in the right position i pulled it up and bolted it on.. These were FPA headers.. Worked a treat.
I also have done it this way on a 68 390 Mustang with super comp hooker headers.. Done both with the transmission attached.. My GT500 is a 4 Spd car and the 68 was a auto..
leave the booster off, that way you can install the engine with the valve covers on..
Also as mentioned, if the headers are new, better do a test fit, or you will be throwing your tools around before you know it..
No accessories, transmission, valve covers or carburetors. You can leave the bell housing on.Headers cannot be installed with the engine. They have to be slid down and leaned against the shock towers sitting on the floor. Leave the frame engine mount frame brackets off. Install the headers with the engine hanging about where it will set when mounted. I bought two carb flange hoist brackets to help with weight distribution and for the engine leveler. In and bolted up, including 6114 hookers and transmission 3.0 hours.
-Keith
I did mine in a similar way way... C-6 attached...headers attached...with a floor jack ( padded of course ) waiting underneath.... 8)
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the replies and recommendations.
As a follow-up, I talked with the rep from Mac's. For the FE dual-quad, they said to use the front carb
with their pivot plate when removing/installing engine only and use the rear carb location when installing/removing
engine and trans together.
They sell a lot of pivot plate adapters for the LS and coyote engine, but nothing for the FE dual quad or tri-power.
They have no plans at this time to fabricate an adapter plate.
I will go with their recommendation and use the rear carb location.
Thanks again!
Ron
I have been using this style for 30 years. No stress on intake manifold, gaskets etc.
https://www.toolsource.com/engine-cranes-stands-c-1401_382/2200-lb-capacity-engine-sling-tilter-leveler-p-91343.html?sourceid=googleps&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI68PgnJv_3QIVif5kCh0USgkeEAQYAyABEgKnd_D_BwE
Many of us have been doing this for so long with a chain or strap anything else is just a nuisance, plus the time and money spent on something that in 5-10 minutes with junk laying around the garage, I could have the engine out safely at no cost. For years I made a loop in the chain that I would move from a center pick to a little rearward depending if the trans was attached or not. It has worked for back yard grease monkey's for the past 75 years and is still a good option if chosen to use it. ;)
Chain has many uses......never lies around unused for long.......
Quote from: rbarkley on October 11, 2018, 02:02:56 PM
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the replies and recommendations.
As a follow-up, I talked with the rep from Mac's. For the FE dual-quad, they said to use the front carb
with their pivot plate when removing/installing engine only and use the rear carb location when installing/removing
engine and trans together.
They sell a lot of pivot plate adapters for the LS and coyote engine, but nothing for the FE dual quad or tri-power.
They have no plans at this time to fabricate an adapter plate.
I will go with their recommendation and use the rear carb location.
Thanks again!
Ron
I would NOT use just one carb plate for an FE. It's not a small block chevy. I would buy a plate for both carbs, buy grade eight bolts. You're asking for disaster on an aluminum manifold. Especially if you're planning on doing it with the trans. An FE is 600 plus pounds alone.
You also cannot put long tube headers mounted to the engine, and anyone here that tells you that you can has never done an FE install in a mustang. They will not clear, not even with ONE side on.
Well 1967 Eight Barrel, that's a big call.. Here is a picture of the engine going into my GT500 with the drivers side header attached..
Like i side, i have also done this with a set of Hooker super comps.. Both cars we had the gear box attached, and installed as a unit..
Pictures like this always make me very nervous. Did you need to raise the rear of the car also? I can envision the transmission tailshaft dragging on the floor.
If I'm not mistaken, I think that I remember original factory installations with scrapes in the black engine compartment paint. Back then, no one cared what happened "under the car".
I would caution everyone that new Hooker headers NEED to be fitted to the chassis obstructions with a hammer first so I don't know how you do that with the headers installed on the engine first, especially if they are already factory coated?
Quote from: 67gt500 on October 14, 2018, 03:44:12 AM
Well 1967 Eight Barrel, that's a big call.. Here is a picture of the engine going into my GT500 with the drivers side header attached..
Like i side, i have also done this with a set of Hooker super comps.. Both cars we had the gear box attached, and installed as a unit..
Where there's a will, there's a way... Good job!
Chris
Keen eyes show he has already made some adjustments for fitment issues, with what looks like a persuasion tool ;D around the bellhousing area. Lifting the ass end up always makes things go in much easier. Ask 100 guys to do something and you will get it done 100 different ways, as long as the finished product is a good one all is well. ;)
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on October 14, 2018, 09:26:18 AM
Quote from: 67gt500 on October 14, 2018, 03:44:12 AM
Well 1967 Eight Barrel, that's a big call.. Here is a picture of the engine going into my GT500 with the drivers side header attached..
Like i side, i have also done this with a set of Hooker super comps.. Both cars we had the gear box attached, and installed as a unit..
Where there's a will, there's a way... Good job!
Chris
+1
Well, I am not going to use this yellow strap for sure! However, It did do the trick to get the engine off the engine stand. Torque converter due in this week.
I think I will go with the double lift plate as mentioned.
Ron
I mostly am pushing and pulling single four engines mostly and got tired a long time ago of using the chain tilter that was bolted to the front and back of the engine and how easily you could tear up your firewall with a little movement on the that side. I have a chain tilter hanging on the wall that I haven't touched since I can't remember. I and others have used the MAC adjustable lift for decades and have also used it for a duel four but I didn't like it as much for that. The picture of the two lift plates and the chain tilter hoked to both looks like a good alternative that will not damage the firewall . I will try that myself next time given I have all the parts to make it happen. Let us know how it goes. Do it slow and easy. Best of luck.
Quote from: rbarkley on October 14, 2018, 03:00:27 PM
Well, I am not going to use this yellow strap for sure! However, It did do the trick to get the engine off the engine stand. Torque converter due in this week.
I think I will go with the double lift plate as mentioned.
Ron
Agreed, I wouldn't use that strap to haul garbage to the dump.
The 2 "yellow straps" that I used in conjunction with the chain tilter in my video are rigging slings rated at 3200lbs each! (Acklands/Grainger Item # LALEE2801DFX4)
Overkill? Maybe but I wasn't worried about dropping the driveline in by myself. With the use of a couple pieces of cardboard it slid in without effort.
Chris
ShelbyDoug - Once i get the oil pan over the radiator support, i use a race jack under the tail shaft to raise the rear up as i drop the engine into place.. No need to raise the rear of the car.
You are correct, i did make a few surgical whacks with a ball pen hammer, so the Z bar had room to swing..
I also fitted the passenger header gasket on the head, using a high temp gasket cement and bolting the header on and leaving over night.. Remove the header and you have half the job done.. Place the header in the engine bay, once it comes time to pull the header up, place gasket cement on the header and bolt it on the head.. easy..
I also have 2 extra helping hands with good big block mustang experience to help.. not real important, but we use the day to get together and talk all things FE Ford..
Key is, Preparation, Preparation, Preparation.. the rest is easy..
Quote from: 67gt500 on October 14, 2018, 03:44:12 AM
Well 1967 Eight Barrel, that's a big call.. Here is a picture of the engine going into my GT500 with the drivers side header attached..
Like i side, i have also done this with a set of Hooker super comps.. Both cars we had the gear box attached, and installed as a unit..
Those are not 6114. They hug the block. As I stated, 6114 hookers will not go in on the engine. If you did get one side in, you didn't do it without hitting the tower and likely the floor board. There was a time where I may have pushed that envelope, but not on a re-painted engine compartment with a manual transmission.
-Keith
Your right, they are not 6114 Hookers, They are FPA Headers.. I didn't say the Hookers were on my car.. They were on my friends 68 390 Mustang with a auto trans.. and we bolted the drivers side header on and installed it with the passenger header sitting in the engine bay.. But that's ok, ill keep doing what i do, and i know how to do it without banging around the shock towers and you can keep doing what you do.. I just found an easier way.. no problem..
Actually, i just rang my brother in law, who has just finished installing his 390 into his 68 4 speed car, with 6114 Hookers, and he did it how i explained.. i didn't help on his install as i was away overseas.. but on all accounts he said worked a treat..
Got the engine and trans installed today. Beautiful Texas weather and good friends made all the difference.
I did use the MAC Pivot plate. It worked great. Headers took a little more time especially the bottom bolts. I had to remove the starter, and engine mounts. Got the headers installed from the bottom up and then put everything back together. Great day overall! First time the big block has been in since 1974.
Ron
^^^ most excellent !!
I've never bothered with lift plates or load positioning doo dads. A length of chain and a bolt into a rear exhaust manifold hole and front on the other side has always worked. If I had the original factory lift brackets I used those.