Does anyone have a picture of the proper assembly line radiator cap for a 65 or 66 GT350?
Thanks...
Quote from: Greg on February 23, 2020, 08:32:55 PM
Does anyone have a picture of the proper assembly line radiator cap for a 65 or 66 GT350?
Thanks...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1E6U6IR8Hopiigdtan5-t0POXNoHLYS66GSPqn09S7es6cqO4_eGWnWH1zg070BtYaaIdzFf7NfG_W2OU9dHqk1hj1IAgDZ5ffYJG-h7gHT9e-zUoE-Ieg9ZIReiLYTBNeO11o1spBgwS-H5p2zBUa5mvMwmKbhJ5eXe6JR7J0iGIZ4VkrC8ng2pB7M6QSj8TMoeGIWQKgCxUzaQN7dNw-9khl2aYFZDXStlWiPiW2xeLR6zbrhcgc24MQgK9ueb3aJ2QEL_NMWe74VG38V1f0Ng3V9IavCN4AppRd7zt88DxfEIFZbM4_IvVfgvCdGNZDW5UsOWPPxHi4A7A11FkYCqqJlt_el8Y_dE1_oogScFBrTFfaB3aCwalyzGgUcuWYHwRB6Jowa2bD1aCzFBuLSGMROX_O__1I8qbWQ5ymS2H0--AAQKAi_2SmwwCZF0jhIES_jQuvyLK6Bq2qub0-bRaI8YI2SFVFWL8crdjLKakzILaoo03kivgGm9CADChR0XsbTFvzfMEu4GYBxHHl96YMTdy2J4YXUWH_DRZSZKGtnL4zGQk4CPcIUrRSlJzto7EhGYwSI99z78vLnMfJT_T2ciUJ2iX8rXwWelTuvBZp7o78RVYLTunZ1LHMw57vwm_Np_4F-GnctFNjWbK5cJuuSns2veeUAXixhx8Rzm1c9HEcYK6exP=w600)
The reproductions that we have are spot on.
Thank you Brant!
Some but not all of the originals have the pound rating turned in a different direction which is one way to tell a repro from genuine .
Is this one a repop?
Quote from: Greg on February 24, 2020, 07:25:56 AM
Is this one a repop?
Believe that one was being sold as NOS on ebay? If so, looks like an earlier part or possibly a generic Ford replacement/service part. Wouldn't be correct for 65-66.
+1 ,
I have had numerous NOS 65-66 radiator caps over the years and the "San Jose" version is like the one in Brant's picture. Stant Manufacturing did them and the whole cap was "industrial" chrome plated.
Randy
This is on 6S135.
Quote from: Greg on February 24, 2020, 07:25:56 AM
Is this one a repop?
Dearborn or Metuchen because of the non chrome plated rivet. Well IMHO anyway, Bob , Charles or Jeff might feel differently.
I have only two chrome plated cap data points. The original cap I removed from SFM5S142 early in 1980 (leaked slowly) and a new old stock cap from a "COBRA" dress up kit. The surface texture of the cap from SFM5S142 is rougher than the cap from the accessory parts channel.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/274-040221181327.jpeg)
Just as a different data point, this is an original cap still in use on an excellent unrestored Cobra. This Cobra was completed in 1963. This cap model was used in Cobras with Ford-McCord coolant expansion tanks from about CSX2141 onward 1963-1965. Caps exactly like this, original ones, have been much tougher to hunt down for me than the chrome plate model.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/274-050221105001.jpeg)
I see the pressure number reversed from one compared the other. If both are known originals as you say then that pressure number orientation may indicate it was randomly stamped given they are both from the same MFG.
The s m co pat# is clocked differently also in dans pic.
interesting to see the variation. My NOS cap is has the writing clocked like Dans original but the 14 is oriented like the one from the cobra kit, but clearly the font for the 14 and the smco matches Dans original.
this one is going on 5s296 - was represented as original assembly line cap...
Dave
Here is a picture of a repro that Mart offers from his website for comparison.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 04, 2021, 06:26:49 PM
I see the pressure number reversed from one compared the other. If both are known originals as you say then that pressure number orientation may indicate it was randomly stamped given they are both from the same MFG.
Being in the stamping business for years I can see how easily the "14" could be turned 180 degrees depending on how the die was built but the clocking of the company name not so much. They would be stamped in production with stamps mounted in a die. I find it weird that they would machine the areas different in 2 dies that would stamp the part. Gary
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on February 05, 2021, 12:22:01 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 04, 2021, 06:26:49 PM
I see the pressure number reversed from one compared the other. If both are known originals as you say then that pressure number orientation may indicate it was randomly stamped given they are both from the same MFG.
Being in the stamping business for years I can see how easily the "14" could be turned 180 degrees depending on how the die was built but the clocking of the company name not so much. They would be stamped in production with stamps mounted in a die. I find it weird that they would machine the areas different in 2 dies that would stamp the part. Gary
Some questions come to mind.
1) How many dies were required to produce hundreds of thousands of blanks a year for the main piece over the years of production coverage (196? to 196?) required?
2) How many tool making companies made dies over the span? Or How many times were old dies rebuilt and refreshed?
3) How many plants or just presses did Stant® have running blanks all those years? (Similar example: In 1964 there were three different versions of oil fill cap provided by Stant to Ford at least. Obviously all made to the same drawing but all very slightly different in fine details. In have hunted since 1984 and still not found an new old stock cap in a Ford box made 100% exactly the same in every dimension and final assembly detail as what the Ford engine assembly plant used on the 1964 HP289 engines shipped to Shelby American mid 1963 until mid 1964.)
4) When was the "pound" rating stamped as there were lots of assemblies made with different opening pressures? If blanks were marked 7, or 13, or 14 or whatever at the original press work time then stocks of all versions had to be held ready to make anything. If "late" product identification was practiced then less total in process inventory would be possible and the "pound" rating might have been done not long before plating and or assembly as a separate operation.
Other thoughts.
1) Shelby American was getting parts on the west coast that were not always the same as ones on the east coast.
2) Dearborn Steel Tubing Company (DST) gathered parts and made up "COBRA KIT" packages for Ford. Said another way, except for things that had to come from California like aluminum castings, DST got parts from different places than Shelby American did. The best example is 1963-64 COBRA POWERED BY FORD rocker arm cover kits from DST that used different fasteners than Shelby American did building new Cobras and early 1965 MUSTANG GT350S.
My point, are the differences in the cap from SFM5S142 and the DST assembled COBRA kit just a east versus west supply train situation? Or a 1965 version versus maybe 1966-67 time frame differences ? For any part that was made by the hundreds of thousands for multiple years variations are to be expected.
Yep like the east vs west coast modine radiators differences. bendix vs kelsey-hayes etc, If u look at several of the same rad caps and compare them u will see differences in the sharpnest of the lettering changes as the tooling wore out the detailing started disappearing and the letters were more rounded off around the edges. I wonder when or who decided to quit using the woren tooling and was it rebuilt or start with another new tooling set that may have been a little different design. Years ago (thru my dearborn connections) i got into a stamping shop by the dearborn assembly plant and seen all these interesting machines that made these small parts. The machine that made the breather caps was a round progressive stamping machine that as it turned the part went to the next station and the part kept getting stamped until it was finnally stamped deep enought then it was assembled and crimped together a very costly type of stamps vs a one hit type stamp. The oil pan stamp would be another example of a deep draw stamp.
Quote from: Special Ed on February 05, 2021, 03:03:58 PM
Yep like the east vs west coast modine radiators differences. bendix vs kelsey-hayes etc, If u look at several of the same rad caps and compare them u will see differences in the sharpnest of the lettering changes as the tooling wore out the detailing started disappearing and the letters were more rounded off around the edges. I wonder when or who decided to quit using the woren tooling and was it rebuilt or start with another new tooling set that may have been a little different design. Years ago (thru my dearborn connections) i got into a stamping shop by the dearborn assembly plant and seen all these interesting machines that made these small parts. The machine that made the breather caps was a round progressive stamping machine that as it turned the part went to the next station and the part kept getting stamped until it was finnally stamped deep enought then it was assembled and crimped together a very costly type of stamps vs a one hit type stamp. The oil pan stamp would be another example of a deep draw stamp.
I have done little with 1965-1970 Shelby and Boss Mustangs since we got the Cobra in 1983 but in the Cobra repair and restoration world it is extremely difficult to find almost any part made by anybody in any country sold as a service part that was exactly 100% the same as what AC Cars, Continental Cars, Shelby American, and Ford used. In part that was due to the long lead times involved. We find 1962 and 1963 dated electrical parts in cars not completed as running cars until 1964 or 1965. We have found late 1950s parts in very early Cobras. There is a 1959 Ford part in Cobras that got reissued in 1962 using different forging dies. By the time somebody needed a service part in let's say 1967 for their Cobra the exact part their car got might not have been made for years by that time.
In the late 1970s I wanted some new exact tie rod ends for my 1970 Boss 302. I spent the day going between the Ford dealer and parts stores opening boxes. I carried one of the car's originals with me. I finally found some exactly like the assembly used but it was not as simple as going to any parts store or the dealer and buying what was laid on the counter first go.
can someone help me post a pic..
Here is my NOS assembly line cap as represented and sold to me by myers.
I spoke with Ed's son and he said he would tell his dad so his dad can chime in on this. His son said the cap came from a man that literally stole these from the assembly line and brought them home in his lunch box. If said statement is true then that leaves questions as to what line west coast or east coast, in 65 or 66 was the cap taken? I hope he chimes in.
Most of the assembly line parts i got back years ago came from dearborn area and i got a few items from NJ plant but i never got anything from SJ plant as i didnt have any conections out far west to SJ workers. I had more of them caps that went on steve julianos cobra s years ago. Look at the W on bobs photo of the marti repo as its stamped much different than the originals.
Thank you so much for chiming in Ed!
Just for fun, here is a picture of something a little different. I always like to use caps of this type. This one was also made by Stant®.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/274-070221190429.jpeg)
i have the autolite version of that cap .
After looking at more of these original caps the s m co, clocking seems to vary a bit and maybe from different tooling stamps being used at that time. Anybody note the bottom side of the caps between the repo and originals as thats another way to tell?