Posted on Seattle craigslist a 66 Hertz car showing letter confirming Ford serial no. From Howard. Should be private info?
Quote from: tomhawk on September 21, 2021, 01:01:13 PM
Posted on Seattle craigslist a 66 Hertz car showing letter confirming Ford serial no. From Howard. Should be private info?
Sent them an email 20+ days ago recommending the removal of the Ford serial number, strictly as a friendly FYI, pointed them here. I see they now reposted a duplicate 11 days ago ::) Oh well, I tried.
You have to be crazy sharing your Ford Vin. There is no upside to it. Sharing or posting your Marti Report is just as bad. If you share a Marti report remove your Ford Vin. from the 4 locations it appears on the form.
Dave
Would you please explain why this is a bad idea? Just wondering. I would like to have concrete reasons for this. In case I was ever to sell my car, I would want to explain this to a potential buyer asking for that info.
In short it aids those who create fakes to sell as real. ;-)
If you have both numbers (Ford and Shelby)you can potentially build a very convincing fake...That is why the registrars will not "give " you both numbers even if they have them on file.Rather it is up to you,the car owner(or potential buyer)to submit both numbers to the registrar and they will confirm(or deny) a match.Way better (security wise)this way.Keep in mind that serial numbers are not the end all.Provenance is also VERY important.This is why we have our excellent registries.
Related to this car and others, did Carroll Shelby sign every glove box door ??? seems pretty common, how many are genuine ?
I have a friend who had a '66 clone/tribute (don't know what you would call it ?) that came out of California, and it was signed.
Mike
Since the VIN police are out, the lime green '67 GT 500 owned by a King that is for sale has its Ford VIN posted on BAT. Someone missed one when trying to black them out.
So you DO NOT want anyone to know both numbers?? Just what people can see. I remember over the years people would take pictures of tags. Would it be best to cover the numbers up with blue tape? In NY the vin is on the registration sticker.
Nothing wrong with posting the Shelby number.
Know the car and the seller....
Shelby vins are clearly visible,no problem there.Ford vin is the big no no...
So a 67 also has a FORD VIN ? I never knew that in my 40 yrs of following along.
Quote from: C6ZZGT on November 02, 2021, 12:51:30 AM
So a 67 also has a FORD VIN ? I never knew that in my 40 yrs of following along.
The Shelby number is stamped on the tag and also visible in the passenger side apron just like in 65 and 66. The Ford VINs are stamped further back hidden under the fenders . Of course the driver side Ford VIN could be seen in the fender cut out made for that purpose if not for the Shelby tag riveted on top of it.
Creating a fake from random VINs would be a crapshoot. First you would need to know of a GT350 that was destroyed. Next you would have to guess a Ford VIN number that was shipped to SA and finally the tricky part is knowing the Ford VIN you guessed is the one in the ledger that matches the car that was under the tag that rolled off the SA assembly line. Don't forget SA didn't build the cars in any order - cars were stuck in the lot in random order and then no protocol was used when they were pulled for completion. Now if you want to throw in 66 & 67 you need to also account for the randomness of color. OK math wizes what are the odds even if you had 100 Ford VINs?
Know the car & the owner..He is a local used car dealer...You think he would know better?.. :o
Quote from: JD on September 21, 2021, 03:32:13 PM
In short it aids those who create fakes to sell as real. ;-)
Grounds for a gunfight. Two cars show up at high noon. One car leaves (hopefully the original).
67GT350 made a great point. In NY the NYS registration sticker that is on the windshield next to the state inspection sticker has the full manufacturer's vin # out there for all to see. You cannot even black it out because that would be a ticket for sure. Mike G.
Quote from: deathsled on November 02, 2021, 02:31:44 PMGrounds for a gunfight. Two cars show up at high noon. One car leaves (hopefully the original).
The Air Cobra scam went south because one was created that the wreckage was still owned by the original buyer who wrecked the car and bought the salvage. The # was in old paper DMV records as destroyed - that info didn't make it when they switched to computers and was available to hand search. When the original owner saw his number in the Registry he called SAAC and related the original car was in his CO garage still wrecked. SAAC contacted the CHP & DMV. They went to the house of the owner of the replica. They inspected and impounded the car. After a lot of attorney fees and negotiation he got his 1/4 million dollar 427 Cobra back as a $60,000 kit car with a state assigned VIN and all CSX# references crudely ground off.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on November 02, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: deathsled on November 02, 2021, 02:31:44 PMGrounds for a gunfight. Two cars show up at high noon. One car leaves (hopefully the original).
The Air Cobra scam went south because one was created that the wreckage was still owned by the original buyer who wrecked the car and bought the salvage. The # was in old paper DMV records as destroyed - that info didn't make it when they switched to computers and was available to hand search. When the original owner saw his number in the Registry he called SAAC and related the original car was in his CO garage still wrecked. SAAC contacted the CHP & DMV. They went to the house of the owner of the replica. They inspected and impounded the car. After a lot of attorney fees and negotiation he got his 1/4 million dollar 427 Cobra back as a $60,000 kit car with a state assigned VIN and all CSX# references crudely ground off.
So the kit car had CSX numbers that were ground off by law and the original wrecked still had its numbers? Was the wrecked original rebuildable? If so, was the original 427 ever rebuilt? Interesting story.
Quote from: Mike G. on November 02, 2021, 04:35:31 PM
67GT350 made a great point. In NY the NYS registration sticker that is on the windshield next to the state inspection sticker has the full manufacturer's vin # out there for all to see. You cannot even black it out because that would be a ticket for sure. Mike G.
The problem is NOT with the Shelby VIN on '65 - '67 cars. The problem is with the Ford VIN under the Shelby VIN tag and under the fenders. That is the one that should not be published. Putting that one out there opens the door to a convincing fake Shelby because an unscrupulous individual now has both numbers, the keys to the kingdom so to speak. Remember, the car was originally sold by Shelby with the SHELBY VIN not the FORD VIN.
It is the full Ford vin that is on the registration sticker that is on the cars windshield, not the Shelby vin. So both vin #s are out there for all to see. Mike G.
Quote from: Mike G. on November 03, 2021, 07:39:33 PM
It is the full Ford vin that is on the registration sticker that is on the cars windshield, not the Shelby vin. So both vin #s are out there for all to see. Mike G.
The car being discussed is a 66 which does not have the VIN visible through the windshield, same for 65 and 67. Except for very rare mistakes 65-67 Shelby's also did not have door tags. 65-67 Shelby Ford VINs are not visible as they are hidden under the fender lip or SAI VIN tag. The Ford VIN can only be seen by removing/pulling back the fender, removing the SAI tag, or often the reverse stamp can be seen by looking up inside the wheel well.
Quote from: Mike G. on November 03, 2021, 07:39:33 PM
It is the full Ford vin that is on the registration sticker that is on the cars windshield, not the Shelby vin. So both vin #s are out there for all to see. Mike G.
Not sure how that is possible. Seems like a lot of effort to obtain the Ford VIN when the car is initially sold as the Ford VIN is hidden. I would think the dealer would have been more interested in making the sale than performing mechanical work to find the hidden numbers. And IIRC, the Ford VIN did not appear on the Shelby invoice. At least I've never seen one in the forty plus years I've been looking at such things.
Quote from: s2ms on November 03, 2021, 08:17:40 PM
The car being discussed is a 66 which does not have the VIN visible through the windshield, same for 65 and 67. Except for very rare mistakes 65-67 Shelby's also did not have door tags. 65-67 Shelby Ford VINs are not visible as they are hidden under the fender lip or SAI VIN tag. The Ford VIN can only be seen by removing/pulling back the fender, removing the SAI tag, or often the reverse stamp can be seen by looking up inside the wheel well.
I agree. One question, did the state of New York have a regulation that would force the dealers to determine the Ford VIN on Shelby Mustangs?
Quote from: S7MS427 on November 03, 2021, 09:28:42 PM
Quote from: Mike G. on November 03, 2021, 07:39:33 PM
It is the full Ford vin that is on the registration sticker that is on the cars windshield, not the Shelby vin. So both vin #s are out there for all to see. Mike G.
Not sure how that is possible. Seems like a lot of effort to obtain the Ford VIN when the car is initially sold as the Ford VIN is hidden. I would think the dealer would have been more interested in making the sale than performing mechanical work to find the hidden numbers. And IIRC, the Ford VIN did not appear on the Shelby invoice. At least I've never seen one in the forty plus years I've been looking at such things.
Quote from: s2ms on November 03, 2021, 08:17:40 PM
The car being discussed is a 66 which does not have the VIN visible through the windshield, same for 65 and 67. Except for very rare mistakes 65-67 Shelby's also did not have door tags. 65-67 Shelby Ford VINs are not visible as they are hidden under the fender lip or SAI VIN tag. The Ford VIN can only be seen by removing/pulling back the fender, removing the SAI tag, or often the reverse stamp can be seen by looking up inside the wheel well.
I agree. One question, did the state of New York have a regulation that would force the dealers to determine the Ford VIN on Shelby Mustangs?
Shelby was the legal MFG of record. The Shelby VIN was all that was legally needed by the states. With that said the Ford /Shelby relationship was/is confusing to the various DMV's back in the day. Some DMV's insisted on needing the Ford VIN. They had the power to do as they saw fit right or wrong. With the right paperwork to school them they would relent. To this day many (not all) DMV's don't recognize the Shelby VIN for the same old reasons . You have to politely school them with proper documents if you want them to understand and register under the Shelby VIN. Starting in 68 the Ford VIN was incorporated into the Shelby VIN which eliminated the problem.
My apologies. I jumped in while overlooking the years in question. I would be better off going back to lurking in the back ground and enjoying the posts :) :) :). Mike G.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on November 02, 2021, 02:06:56 AM
Quote from: C6ZZGT on November 02, 2021, 12:51:30 AM
So a 67 also has a FORD VIN ? I never knew that in my 40 yrs of following along.
The Shelby number is stamped on the tag and also visible in the passenger side apron just like in 65 and 66. The Ford VINs are stamped further back hidden under the fenders . Of course the driver side Ford VIN could be seen in the fender cut out made for that purpose if not for the Shelby tag riveted on top of it.
I`m not sure why I never realized that for a 67 ,but it makes perfect sense .
Quote from: 67 GT350 on September 21, 2021, 03:19:47 PM
Would you please explain why this is a bad idea? Just wondering. I would like to have concrete reasons for this. In case I was ever to sell my car, I would want to explain this to a potential buyer asking for that info.
Here is one of many reasons:
https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/enabling-strong-potential-for-k-code-fraud-and-discussing-k-code-fraud-in-general.1173147/page-4#post-10565733 (https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/enabling-strong-potential-for-k-code-fraud-and-discussing-k-code-fraud-in-general.1173147/page-4#post-10565733)